Jump to content




Photo

Tom mufflers

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#21
TheArchitect

TheArchitect

    Advanced Forum Guru

  • Members
  • 1,550 posts

Would the Remo drum dampener work for you?


Maybe. I didn't think remo was still making them though.
  • 0

#22
Thumper

Thumper

    Advanced Snr. Member

  • Members
  • 737 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

I like & use rings; varying inner diameters (e.g. width) varies damping  


  • 0

#23
dcrigger

dcrigger

    DFO Potentate

  • Members
  • 4,676 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Gaffer's Tape - (not duct tape) - inside out little loops or flat pieces with flaps sticking up. Less than $15 for years  of use and hundreds of applications. I've never found anything else that's more versatile and easier to have always available.


  • 0

#24
NYFrank

NYFrank

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 408 posts
  • LocationNortheast U.S.

I also use 3M rubber mastic tape.  Think of it as a very durable version of moongel.  It's thick, flexible rubber tape.  One roll goes for years.  

I actually put a small square of that rubber tape on the bottom of the DrumClips I posted about earlier.  Perfection.  


  • 0

#25
Elvis

Elvis

    The King of Rock'n'Roll

  • Members
  • 9,095 posts
  • LocationPoulsbo, Wa.

I have been using cymbal felts taped to the rim with painters tape. It let's them leave the head when hit and then settle back down. It quiets the heads to minimize sympathetic vibration in the mics and provides very natural sounding control. I got the idea from a Paul Leim video on youtube.

Does anyone know of a more elegant but similar solution? Trying to eliminate the need for tape on the hardware primarily

 

For the most part, if I need to muffle my toms, I just throw a Ritchie ring on there.

Done.

When I don't need it anymore, I just pull it off and I'm wide open again.

Couldn't be easier.

Since you bring this up, though, I still want to try a trick someone told me about a while back.

They said, if I take a tube of caulk or Permatex and squeeze it into the little gap between the rim and the head, it will also perform some mild muffling.

I think I finally have a tom that I can experiment on, too....should try that.


  • 0

#26
Seb77

Seb77

    Forum Guru

  • Members
  • 1,041 posts
  • LocationGermany

If the main problem is that you want to avoid glueing tape to your hoops, you could use some sort of spring clamp and cloth. I've seen classical snare drum players use this. You could also combine this with a weighted end. I read somewhere the Paul Leim method involved coins to add weight, not just felt?

 

These days, I prefer using just heads and tuning to get the sound I want. Haven't been close-mic'ed for quite a while though. Maybe I would use something similar then.


  • 0

#27
pedro navahas

pedro navahas

    Drum Czar

  • Platinum
  • 2,139 posts

Gaffer's Tape - (not duct tape) - inside out little loops or flat pieces with flaps sticking up. Less than $15 for years of use and hundreds of applications. I've never found anything else that's more versatile and easier to have always available.



What's the difference?
I thought "gaffers" tape was a trade name for duct tape?
  • 0

#28
tnsquint

tnsquint

    Backline Rental Guru

  • Members
  • 2,675 posts
  • LocationNashville, TN
Gaffer's tape is very different from Duck Tape / Duct Tape. Gaffer's tape has a low sheen, fabric finish which is desired for the film and live event industry, hence the name "gaffer's tape". The adhesive tends to release much cleaner than duck/duct tape as well. It's also quite a bit more expensive.
  • 0

#29
TheArchitect

TheArchitect

    Advanced Forum Guru

  • Members
  • 1,550 posts

I think perhaps some of you are misunderstanding my objective. I don't want the drum muffled when played. I only want it muffled when it is not being played. That is why I want the felt to freely move off the head on impact. I am trying to eliminate the sympathetic ringing from the toms caused by the kick and snare being played. Rings, tape, moon gel etc don't eliminate that and while an internal muffler would, I would also no longer have wide open toms. 

 

With 4-5 wide open toms the amount of "hum" the mics pick up from sympathetic toms is considerable and its a pain in the ass to deal with at mix time. Sure you could edit it out but often times you want those mics open because they add something to the sound.


Edited by TheArchitect, 14 August 2017 - 08:16 AM.

  • 0

#30
TheArchitect

TheArchitect

    Advanced Forum Guru

  • Members
  • 1,550 posts

 

I have been using cymbal felts taped to the rim with painters tape. It let's them leave the head when hit and then settle back down. It quiets the heads to minimize sympathetic vibration in the mics and provides very natural sounding control. I got the idea from a Paul Leim video on youtube.

Does anyone know of a more elegant but similar solution? Trying to eliminate the need for tape on the hardware primarily

 

For the most part, if I need to muffle my toms, I just throw a Ritchie ring on there.

Done.

When I don't need it anymore, I just pull it off and I'm wide open again.

Couldn't be easier.

Since you bring this up, though, I still want to try a trick someone told me about a while back.

They said, if I take a tube of caulk or Permatex and squeeze it into the little gap between the rim and the head, it will also perform some mild muffling.

I think I finally have a tom that I can experiment on, too....should try that.

 

I does have an impact but at a cost. Its a mess to clean up if you need to take the head off. It will dry out over time and flake. If you are a "change the heads once every 25 years need it or not" type it may work for you. I am always switching things around it became clear that I didn't want to deal with the aftermath of it. I am VERY glad I tried it on a beater 


  • 0

#31
CSR

CSR

    Member since May 2000

  • Platinum
  • 5,749 posts
  • Location- Snow Belt, New York State, USA, Earth
I find this works well. It's a lightly weighted leather pad that sits on the head and is able to bounce slightly as the head flexes. It can be flipped off instantly and hangs by a cord placed over a lug. It can remain on the Drum in a bag or case, and is easily stored in a gig bag. The price is pretty decent, too.

http://www.lonestarp...Swamp-BSDD.html
  • 0

#32
TheArchitect

TheArchitect

    Advanced Forum Guru

  • Members
  • 1,550 posts

This video shows what inspired what I am looking to do. The whole video is cool but around 3:30 - 3:50 is good place to start to see it.

 


Edited by TheArchitect, 14 August 2017 - 10:49 AM.

  • 0

#33
Elvis

Elvis

    The King of Rock'n'Roll

  • Members
  • 9,095 posts
  • LocationPoulsbo, Wa.


I think perhaps some of you are misunderstanding my objective. I don't want the drum muffled when played. I only want it muffled when it is not being played. That is why I want the felt to freely move off the head on impact. I am trying to eliminate the sympathetic ringing from the toms caused by the kick and snare being played. Rings, tape, moon gel etc don't eliminate that and while an internal muffler would, I would also no longer have wide open toms. 

 

With 4-5 wide open toms the amount of "hum" the mics pick up from sympathetic toms is considerable and its a pain in the ass to deal with at mix time. Sure you could edit it out but often times you want those mics open because they add something to the sound.

 

Well, in that case....e-drums....or maybe, triggers

That would be your best bet.

Otherwise, I don't know if you could ever totally eliminate that sympathetic hum.

I mean, they're a very natural instrument and anything around them will effect how and (more importantly) when they'll go off.

The felt idea is interesting. Sounds kinda like setting your wallet on a snare drum in order to gain a drier sound from the drum.

Seems like it would be a bit cantankerous, though. When you go for the toms, you've got to flip the felts off quickly, run the toms, then flip them back on.

All of your drums are set on separate stands, right?

 

 

Elvis


Edited by Elvis, 14 August 2017 - 02:11 PM.

  • 0

#34
TheArchitect

TheArchitect

    Advanced Forum Guru

  • Members
  • 1,550 posts

 



I think perhaps some of you are misunderstanding my objective. I don't want the drum muffled when played. I only want it muffled when it is not being played. That is why I want the felt to freely move off the head on impact. I am trying to eliminate the sympathetic ringing from the toms caused by the kick and snare being played. Rings, tape, moon gel etc don't eliminate that and while an internal muffler would, I would also no longer have wide open toms. 

 

With 4-5 wide open toms the amount of "hum" the mics pick up from sympathetic toms is considerable and its a pain in the ass to deal with at mix time. Sure you could edit it out but often times you want those mics open because they add something to the sound.

 

Well, in that case....e-drums....or maybe, triggers

That would be your best bet.

Otherwise, I don't know if you could ever totally eliminate that sympathetic hum.

I mean, they're a very natural instrument and anything around them will effect how and (more importantly) when they'll go off.

The felt idea is interesting. Sounds kinda like setting your wallet on a snare drum in order to gain a drier sound from the drum.

Seems like it would be a bit cantankerous, though. When you go for the toms, you've got to flip the felts off quickly, run the toms, then flip them back on.

All of your drums are set on separate stands, right?

 

 

Elvis

 

Edrums? What would be the point in that?

 

I don't need to eliminate it, just reduce it. Who said anything about flipping them off the drums? It's not necessary. They lay freely on the drum and hop off on their own when the drum is struck and then settle back down. You can observe this in the video link I attached above.


  • 0

#35
dcrigger

dcrigger

    DFO Potentate

  • Members
  • 4,676 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

 

Hmmmmm.........The good old fashion internal tone controls, when used properly, can muffle, or mute, or tame the ringiness, or let the head do what it wants to do by dialing in as little or as much tension on the tone control.. The one type that offers the least amount of variation in tone control is the Ludwig baseball bat tone control. I even have a couple of Walberg & Auge bass drums with a largeer version of the tom/snare drum tone control. On the few drums I own with no internal tone control, I use various sizes of window clings on the tops of the batter heads..



But they can't let the head do what it wants. That's the problem. Those type of mufflers DONT do what I want. They all affect the attack/tone when used because they cannot separate from the head. Moon gel, tape etc all add mass and change the sound negatively imo. I will keep working on it.

 

 

I get it. So it seems you are looking for a physical solution mimicking an electronic noise gate.

Which basically what Paul constructed and demonstrated in that video. And frankly, I don't see it getting much more elegant than that without getting very complicated.

The thick "fabric" hinge created by his gaff tape seems to hit a good compromise between the desired "fast open" action on each strike with a not "too fast" time when closing back down.  To construct faster open and slower close would require what a quick open hinge with a descent slowing hydraulic piston to ease the muffle down.

Seems a lot of effort - that then still won't ever be "one size fits all". This is why gating drums on input has fallen out of favor - it's to hard to get right beforehand. And now with DAWs, just too easy to nail after the fact.

So no I don't see how to do that much better than Paul did. And if use quality gaff tape - and don't leave them on for months at a time - no harm will come to any hardware.

Anyway - my 2 cents...


  • 0

#36
tnsquint

tnsquint

    Backline Rental Guru

  • Members
  • 2,675 posts
  • LocationNashville, TN
Elvis,
What he is describing is a fairly common studio technique. The idea is that the cymbal felt sits on the head. When you strike the drum, the felt flips up a bit, effectively rendering the drum wide open, gravity then pulls the felt back down on the head which adds just a touch of muffling but only after the fact. Basically, it is kind of a "tone gate". When you strike the drum you get the full resonance and tone that drum/drumhead combination has to offer. A fraction is a second later the felt comes down to hamper the harmonic overtones and reduce sustain.

Moon gel, window clings, gaffer's tape, studio rings, internal mufflers (especially internal mufflers) external mufflers and anything else like that are nothing at all like what the OP is looking for. The Weckl piston muffler actually is precisely this kind of muffler, but I believe it has proved to be very tedious and prone to breakage.

Paul Leim has a tech from Drum Paradise that installs these for him on most, if not all of his sessions. Simply put it is a cymbal felt (that may be weighted) and they use gaffer's tape to secure to the rim and to hold the felt on the head. The felt is just resting on the head and the gaff tape acts as a sort of hinge allowing the felt to pop up when the drum is struck and then rest back down on the head after.

Once I head about this I started to cobble together some parts so that one could avoid the entire time consuming gaff tape bit. Mine worked but I never spent the time to turn that into a product. But the idea is cool.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users