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Mixing Agops and K Cons?

- - - - - Mixing brands Zildjian Agop Istanbul Ride

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#1
jojo_berlin

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Hello cymbalholics,

I am still trying to find my perfect jazzy-setup, since three years now. Many cymbals have come and gone. Only 2 purchases stayed so far: Its a Zildjain K con 20" med thin high (lsr) and a 21" Istanbul Agop Jazz S.E. (super dry, very delicate!). I think. Ideally, I would stay within one brand, but the more I play them together, the more I like that combination.

Anyone else here is mixing K Cons with Agops? And if zou own that Agop S.E., which is your go-to left-side-ride?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!


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#2
organicdrummer

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I don't use either, but they are both amazing. Can't offer any opinions other than to check out Carter McClean and his YouTube or Instsgram channels. His older YouTubes are mainly K Con and Zildjian. His newer stuff is all flavors of jazzy Agops. It won't give you a great idea of how they work together in one kit, but you can see how they sound in the hands of a monster groove player. If you're not hip to Carter, you better take a big ladder and a flashlight to his page - his pocket is sooooo deep you'll get lost down there.
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#3
dtk

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never under stood the need to only fly one brand of cymbals...unless they're sponsoring you... grab the colors that motivate


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#4
Johnny D

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Why not mix them? They're made from the same alloy, just differently. Unless of course you want to stay brand consistent, which is fair enough. In my experience, there are very few cymbals that don't mix well. I mix a 20" original/white label circa late 60s Giant Beat ride with 2013 redesigned A. Zildjian crashes, and they mix beautifully together...  

 

Good luck!     


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#5
LFBarfe

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never under stood the need to only fly one brand of cymbals...unless they're sponsoring you... grab the colors that motivate

 

This. I've got a big band rehearsal tonight. I'm taking my 20" A Vintage ride, my 20" pre-split Istanbul flat ride, my 20" Tosco pang and my 13" A brilliant hi-hats. Three different brands, but they make a hell of a set.


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#6
Fat Drummer

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"Ideally, I would stay within one brand, but the more I play them together, the more I like that combination."

I understand that thought completely. I too enjoy building and playing brand specific rigs and often use then as such. Yet even within a brand I still usually have examples from different series so it's a short step to just mixing brands as well.

So even as a guy who likes to play brand specific rigs, I still mix them all the time depending on what the music needs. And I think everyone would agree that is all that really matters... do they sound good together and serve the music.

Edited by Fat Drummer, 11 October 2017 - 01:07 PM.

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#7
maxb2k

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 I think everyone would agree that is all that really matters... do they sound good together and serve the music.

 Think this is key, sound and function.

I have a really nice pairing of 19 Zildjian kerope with an Agop Mel Lewis 1982 ride.  They compliment each other so well for the particular gig I play.


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#8
Fat Drummer

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Yeah, for me I mix a 20" Sabian HH Vanguard with a 22" Istanbul Mehmet 70's Series quite a bit. Just a lovely combo... even though I have 20's and 22's in the same brands, I find that combo is just magical.

If I may be as presumptuous to say, I think you already have your answer, as youve stated they sound good together. Go with it and enjoy whats in front of you for now.

Edited by Fat Drummer, 11 October 2017 - 10:45 PM.

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#9
bergheimer

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Thanks for all your thoughts. Actually i didnt want to start a threat abobout mixing brands, it was rather regarding these two specific models. I am quite new in the universe of jazz, thus my ears are still on a learning curve regarding Jazz cymbals, that compliment each orher. So i just wanted to know if snyone else plays a K con and an Agop Jazz S.E.
Btw. i usually play 3 cymbals. on the far right i alternate with a 22 Nostalgia 70', s Mehmet MC Jazz with two rivets or a 18 Mel Lewis with 2 rivets.
Still grateful for shared experiences:-)

Edited by bergheimer, 12 October 2017 - 04:18 AM.

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#10
Fat Drummer

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Sorry, my miss-understanding...but I see I have meet another 22" Nostalgia 70's owner and that makes me happy!!


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#11
bergheimer

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Hey fat drummer,
indeed, i think the Nostalgia is a hidden gem. Which cymbals you combinate with it and do u use it as your msin ride?
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#12
Fat Drummer

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Yep, I really was bitten by that particular series a couple of years ago. While I would like to build a set of slightly "dirtier" sounds (maybe an Agop Signature rig) I would never be able to pt these up. They are the smoothest, most lovely set of pies I have ever owned.

 

When just using 2, I use a set 15” Nostalgia Hats (1038 over 1290) with my 20" 70's (1778g) on my left and the 22" 2290g 70's  in the ride position.  When I want to run the full rig, I add a 16" and 18" Nostalgia series crash as well. (replace the 20" Agop in the pic with the 20" 70's)

Attached Files


Edited by Fat Drummer, 13 October 2017 - 11:17 PM.

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#13
bergheimer

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So you stay withing the Nostgia family?
I find it very delicate to use different sound characteristics, thsts why i like that Agop as a contrast. Its super dry, whereas the Nostalgia is more open with a longer sustain and much more overtones. The K Con is kind of inbetween, very woody and washy, absolutely love it!
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#14
kerope

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never under stood the need to only fly one brand of cymbals...unless they're sponsoring you... grab the colors that motivate

 

This. I've got a big band rehearsal tonight. I'm taking my 20" A Vintage ride, my 20" pre-split Istanbul flat ride, my 20" Tosco pang and my 13" A brilliant hi-hats. Three different brands, but they make a hell of a set.

 

 

 

I know you, you're always mixing it up!!  ;) Al Dente :)


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#15
Fat Drummer

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So you stay withing the Nostgia family?
I find it very delicate to use different sound characteristics, thsts why i like that Agop as a contrast. Its super dry, whereas the Nostalgia is more open with a longer sustain and much more overtones. The K Con is kind of inbetween, very woody and washy, absolutely love it!

 

It was not my intention (to stay within the one series) but as the rig grew I kept coming back to this line and replacing other series with the Nostalgia so it grew rather organically. I have even swapped out and replaced the same cymbal for one that blended with the others better (that is my 2nd or 3rd 22" for example) and I have also had other sizes in the Nostalgia line that I have sold off (16", 21", sizzels).

 

But I am rambling, to answer your question... I put this rig together to specifically be a pretty and clean old K Turkish sound. I had a mix with several Agop plates but they dont play well with the classic Nostalgia sound. The Agop have a "trashier" and more aggressive quality that overpowered this rig. I LOVE the Agop Signature cymbals and that is most likely my next long term project... like I needed yet another cymbal set up... but I still see it happening!


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#16
jdc

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I mixed a 20" K Con Med-Thin High and a 22" Agop SE jazz ride. I play mostly jazz and the cymbals sounded good together. I liked the combo of the Agop SE with a 20K Con Flat better than the Med-Thin high. The Med-Thin high was a little too loud for the SE Jazz Ride I had. The SE was a little too quiet and too dark cymbal for me. I ended up selling it, I still use the K Con Med-Thin high, usually as a main ride though.

People would compliment the Med-Thin High and SE Jazz a lot but ultimately the Agop didn't work for me. It was a little too dark and too quiet.
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#17
jojo_berlin

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That's an interesting point. 

@Fat Drummer: Which Agops were that, that they where overpowering the Nostalgias? My experiences are similar to jdc's experience, that at least the Agop SE is much softer and quiter compared to the Nostalgia and also the K Con. That was actually my concern, but I balance it out by playing the K Con's and the Nostalgia a bit quiter (hitting it softer).

But yes jdc, I was thinking about getting an Agop Signature or even an Agop Turk to compliment the SE. I think those Agops are just very unique and special, not easy to match them with other brands.

Another question: Do you strictly play Jazz with your Nostalgias? I find them very versatile and I also play it in my Indie band. I just like the Jazz-sound in that context too.


Edited by jojo_berlin, 15 October 2017 - 02:15 AM.

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#18
LFBarfe

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never under stood the need to only fly one brand of cymbals...unless they're sponsoring you... grab the colors that motivate

 

This. I've got a big band rehearsal tonight. I'm taking my 20" A Vintage ride, my 20" pre-split Istanbul flat ride, my 20" Tosco pang and my 13" A brilliant hi-hats. Three different brands, but they make a hell of a set.

 

 

 

I know you, you're always mixing it up!!   ;) Al Dente :)

 

That pre split has had some right dodge owners in the past. ;)


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#19
Fat Drummer

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That's an interesting point. 

@Fat Drummer: Which Agops were that, that they where overpowering the Nostalgias? My experiences are similar to jdc's experience, that at least the Agop SE is much softer and quiter compared to the Nostalgia and also the K Con. That was actually my concern, but I balance it out by playing the K Con's and the Nostalgia a bit quiter (hitting it softer).

 

First, sorry about hijacking your orgional thread and turning it into a Nostalgia discussion, I was certainty not my intention when I first posted. As for the Agop, I maybe did not explain that well, when I said they overpowered the Nostalgia's. I was not referring to volume but to my earlier description of them having a slightly "trashy" or "dirty" sound and a more aggressive quality. The Mehmet's dont seem to posses a lot of that Turkish signature "white noise" quality found in so many of the Agops. I just thought the two sound qualities did not blend well with the Agops, being more aggressive and overpowering tonally.

 

Volume wise  they were indeed quite, though I confess I have been through a lot of Nostalgia's to match up a very light set for myself so mine are not very loud. I regret selling my Agops, though at the time I did not think I would be missing them. I was wrong. I do want to build a set of them as the opportunity presents it's self.


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#20
kerope

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never under stood the need to only fly one brand of cymbals...unless they're sponsoring you... grab the colors that motivate

 

This. I've got a big band rehearsal tonight. I'm taking my 20" A Vintage ride, my 20" pre-split Istanbul flat ride, my 20" Tosco pang and my 13" A brilliant hi-hats. Three different brands, but they make a hell of a set.

 

 

 

I know you, you're always mixing it up!!   ;) Al Dente :)

 

That pre split has had some right dodge owners in the past. ;)

 

 

 

I've never been a Dodge owner, a couple of Jeep Cherokees and a Wrangler, but that's about it?  ;)


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