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Guitar Center demise imminent?

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#41
Murat

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^Seems like the local mom and pops are more about band instruments, equipment rentals, lessons and working with the local school districts. I don't think they would know what to do if I walked in to order a Yamaha PHX kit. To be fair the box stores probably wouldn't either. 

Depends on what kind of direction you want to go as a small shop  brother :icon_smile: You came to mine, I would just show you the below PHX :-)

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#42
tim

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My formative years were before box stores were a thing in the Northeast, and it was great (and not very long ago). My hometown had a local chain which had great used gear and a decent selection of beginner to pro stuff. Plus we had a pawn shop and 3 smaller independent shops. If we wanted to hit Boston we had a pretty good selection between EU Wurlitzer, Daddys and Jacks Drum shop for rock gear, and a bunch of options for orchestral insturments and sheet music. Then there was Music Row in NYC which was pretty amazing.

 

When I left Boston this summer there were two GC's and a couple small guitar shops, with the most piss poor selection of gear I have ever seen in my life.

I went up to DCP and was blown away by what Shane had done in the new store. He doesn't need a GC anywhere near him to draw business. I'd rather take a trip there, Forks, Dales, Drum Shop Maine or Maxwells than spend a dime online at Musicians Friend and Amazon or at a GC.


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#43
franke

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The GC business model is unsustainable in today's market, where fewer and fewer are taking up instruments, and fewer and fewer can earn a viable living playing music.  Whether they go under this year or next is open to debate, but they will eventually, it is inevitable.  The odd thing is that when they do they will take down a number of manufacturers with them (likely Gibson and Fender), and we just might see a resurgence of independent stores, though what drove the growth and success from the sixties onwards is likely never to return.  I've written an essay on this subject which can be read here:  https://fuzzwahswell...ar-lessons.html


Edited by franke, 10 December 2017 - 10:54 PM.

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#44
gonzo

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Frankie-I’ve heard DW might be the same as Fender and Gibson in the take down mix.
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#45
mkelley

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I'll believe it when it actually happens. People have been preaching about the "death" of Guitar Center for years. 


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#46
supershifter2

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someone is betting the stock market AGAINST GC to make millions if GC fails

 


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#47
Olderschool

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I don't want to see a music store go out of business no matter how big or small it is, because I don't think it's good for the art or the industry when that happens.   

Couldn't agree more. Competition is a good thing.


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#48
W&A Player

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The GC business model is unsustainable in today's market, where fewer and fewer are taking up instruments, and fewer and fewer can earn a viable living playing music.  Whether they go under this year or next is open to debate, but they will eventually, it is inevitable.  The odd thing is that when they do they will take down a number of manufacturers with them (likely Gibson and Fender), and we just might see a resurgence of independent stores, though what drove the growth and success from the sixties onwards is likely never to return.  I've written an essay on this subject which can be read here:  https://fuzzwahswell...ar-lessons.html

Franke....We're all entitled to our opinions. I think that your opinion on the demise of GC, Fender, Gibson, and others must have a lot to do with your personal agenda. 


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#49
Rich K.

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There is no question that there are fewer and fewer kids taking up guitar and drums. It will never go away, but relative to most of our experience it certainly is a dying industry.
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#50
ARGuy

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The GC business model is unsustainable in today's market, where fewer and fewer are taking up instruments, and fewer and fewer can earn a viable living playing music.  Whether they go under this year or next is open to debate, but they will eventually, it is inevitable.  The odd thing is that when they do they will take down a number of manufacturers with them (likely Gibson and Fender), and we just might see a resurgence of independent stores, though what drove the growth and success from the sixties onwards is likely never to return.  I've written an essay on this subject which can be read here:  https://fuzzwahswell...ar-lessons.html

Franke....We're all entitled to our opinions. I think that your opinion on the demise of GC, Fender, Gibson, and others must have a lot to do with your personal agenda. 

 

 

WA - most of us are aware of your background in MI retail, which for me at least, gives your opinions some weight. So why do you have to be that guy that says "Since my opinion is based on fact, and your opinion is different than mine, yours must be based on a personal agenda?" Can't you just admit that a differing opinion could be equally valid?


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#51
franke

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Frankie-I’ve heard DW might be the same as Fender and Gibson in the take down mix.

 

That would be quite terrible if indeed it were to happen.  DW has done much to advance drum set playing and I would hate to see them go.  Also, they are currently making Gretsch USA, so that would be two-down, not just one.


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#52
franke

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The GC business model is unsustainable in today's market, where fewer and fewer are taking up instruments, and fewer and fewer can earn a viable living playing music.  Whether they go under this year or next is open to debate, but they will eventually, it is inevitable.  The odd thing is that when they do they will take down a number of manufacturers with them (likely Gibson and Fender), and we just might see a resurgence of independent stores, though what drove the growth and success from the sixties onwards is likely never to return.  I've written an essay on this subject which can be read here:  https://fuzzwahswell...ar-lessons.html

Franke....We're all entitled to our opinions. I think that your opinion on the demise of GC, Fender, Gibson, and others must have a lot to do with your personal agenda. 

 

 

WA - most of us are aware of your background in MI retail, which for me at least, gives your opinions some weight. So why do you have to be that guy that says "Since my opinion is based on fact, and your opinion is different than mine, yours must be based on a personal agenda?" Can't you just admit that a differing opinion could be equally valid?

 

 

Not quite sure what "agenda" you refer to.  


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#53
Rich K.

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Frankie-I’ve heard DW might be the same as Fender and Gibson in the take down mix.


That would be quite terrible if indeed it were to happen. DW has done much to advance drum set playing and I would hate to see them go. Also, they are currently making Gretsch USA, so that would be two-down, not just one.
DW isn't making Gretsch. The US drums are still made at the Grestch place in SC (aren't they?).
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#54
K.O.

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The GC business model is unsustainable in today's market, where fewer and fewer are taking up instruments, and fewer and fewer can earn a viable living playing music.  Whether they go under this year or next is open to debate, but they will eventually, it is inevitable.  The odd thing is that when they do they will take down a number of manufacturers with them (likely Gibson and Fender), and we just might see a resurgence of independent stores, though what drove the growth and success from the sixties onwards is likely never to return.  I've written an essay on this subject which can be read here:  https://fuzzwahswell...ar-lessons.html

 

Very interesting take on things. I enjoyed reading that.


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#55
W&A Player

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"WA - most of us are aware of your background in MI retail, which for me at least, gives your opinions some weight. So why do you have to be that guy that says "Since my opinion is based on fact, and your opinion is different than mine, yours must be based on a personal agenda?" Can't you just admit that a differing opinion could be equally valid"?

 

 

Of course Franke's opinion is valid from one perspective. My industry experience is from the perspective of selling to the retailers--not working in the retail stores. I think I recall that Franke's experience is mostly from the perspective of working in the retail end of the business. We each have our own agendas. My agenda is based on 30 years of dealing with "experts" and non-experts telling me how badly the state of our industry is and how bad my company is. Well, some companies did fail. I worked for one of those great companies that failed despite anything we tried to do to prevent it ...ARP Instruments. Then, I made a 27 year career of working for an industry giant that always had to deal with the nay-sayers predicting our demise while, at the same time, wishing that they could carry our products in their own stores. It was amazing how the retailer in a town, who was the biggest critic of of our products, became enthralled with us when they were offered the opportunity to carry our products in their store. So, my agenda is that the industry needs the big chains to attract first time buyers who are pulled in by their massive advertising campaigns. The industry also needs the neighborhood independent store that can provide lessons, sell the accessories, do minor repairs, and provide other services that the mega stores do not provide. Some specialty stores that feature used and vintage gear, or only left-handed guitars, etc.  have customer bases that extend far beyond the city where they are located. Some of these specialty shops could be more profitable if they closed their shop, and concentrated on online sales that are already their mainstay.  The big hole in the retail part of the industry is where the former "we used to be the big guys in town" dealers once dominated. Just this month, the last of the former "big guys" in Houston is closing down after being in business for over 60 years. My agenda is for the combined efforts of manufacturers and retailers to sell as much musical gear as they can.


Edited by W&A Player, Yesterday, 08:30 AM.

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#56
bigbonzo

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I was at the local GC to buy a double-pedal bass drum protector pad (can't think of another name for it) with my girlfriend's daughter.   That should keep 'em in business for a while!   Hahahaha.... :headbang:


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#57
ARGuy

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"WA - most of us are aware of your background in MI retail, which for me at least, gives your opinions some weight. So why do you have to be that guy that says "Since my opinion is based on fact, and your opinion is different than mine, yours must be based on a personal agenda?" Can't you just admit that a differing opinion could be equally valid"?

 

 

Of course Franke's opinion is valid from on perspective. My industry experience is from the perspective of selling to the retailers--not working in the retail stores. I think I recall that Franke's experience is mostly from the perspective of working in the retail end of the business. We each have our own agendas. My agenda is based on 30 years of dealing with "experts" and non-experts telling me how badly the state of our industry is and how bad my company is. Well, some companies did fail. I worked for one of those great companies that failed despite anything we tried to do to prevent it ...ARP Instruments. Then, I made a 27 year career of working for an industry giant that always had to deal with the nay-sayers predicting our demise while, at the same time, wishing that they could carry our products in their own stores. It was amazing how the retailer in a town, who was the biggest critic of of our products, became enthralled with us when they were offered the opportunity to carry our products in their store. So, my agenda is that the industry needs the big chains to attract first time buyers who are pulled in by their massive advertising campaigns. The industry also needs the neighborhood independent store that can provide lessons, sell the accessories, do minor repairs, and provide other services that the mega stores do not provide. Some specialty stores that feature used and and vintage gear, or only left-handed guitars, etc.  have customer bases that extend far beyond the city where they are located. Some of these specialty shops could be more profitable if they closed their shop, and concentrated on online sales that are already their mainstay.  The big hole in the retail part of the industry is where the former "we used to be the big guys in town" dealers once dominated. Just this month, the last of the former "big guys" in Houston is closing down after being in business for over 60 years. My agenda is for the combined efforts of manufacturers and retailers to sell as much musical gear as they can.

WAdealingwithrumorsandpredictionsofgloomanddoom. - most of us are aware of your background in MI retail, which for me at least, gives your opinions some weight. So why do you have to be that guy that says "Since my opinion is based on fact, and your opinion is different than mine, yours must be based on a personal agenda?" Can't you just admit that a differing opinion could be equally val

 

Okay, that's all well and good, but what is this "personal agenda" you referred to? That choice of words implies that his opinion is based on feelings and emotions or a personal dislike for GC, rather than being based on his own business experiences and research. You seem to think that because you have worked for manufacturers, you can look down your nose at the opinions of retailers.

Another way you might want to look at it - your agenda is just as personal as his.  


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#58
franke

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The GC business model is unsustainable in today's market, where fewer and fewer are taking up instruments, and fewer and fewer can earn a viable living playing music.  Whether they go under this year or next is open to debate, but they will eventually, it is inevitable.  The odd thing is that when they do they will take down a number of manufacturers with them (likely Gibson and Fender), and we just might see a resurgence of independent stores, though what drove the growth and success from the sixties onwards is likely never to return.  I've written an essay on this subject which can be read here:  https://fuzzwahswell...ar-lessons.html

 

Very interesting take on things. I enjoyed reading that.

 

 

Thank you.


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#59
W&A Player

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"WA - most of us are aware of your background in MI retail, which for me at least, gives your opinions some weight. So why do you have to be that guy that says "Since my opinion is based on fact, and your opinion is different than mine, yours must be based on a personal agenda?" Can't you just admit that a differing opinion could be equally valid"?

 

 

Of course Franke's opinion is valid from on perspective. My industry experience is from the perspective of selling to the retailers--not working in the retail stores. I think I recall that Franke's experience is mostly from the perspective of working in the retail end of the business. We each have our own agendas. My agenda is based on 30 years of dealing with "experts" and non-experts telling me how badly the state of our industry is and how bad my company is. Well, some companies did fail. I worked for one of those great companies that failed despite anything we tried to do to prevent it ...ARP Instruments. Then, I made a 27 year career of working for an industry giant that always had to deal with the nay-sayers predicting our demise while, at the same time, wishing that they could carry our products in their own stores. It was amazing how the retailer in a town, who was the biggest critic of of our products, became enthralled with us when they were offered the opportunity to carry our products in their store. So, my agenda is that the industry needs the big chains to attract first time buyers who are pulled in by their massive advertising campaigns. The industry also needs the neighborhood independent store that can provide lessons, sell the accessories, do minor repairs, and provide other services that the mega stores do not provide. Some specialty stores that feature used and and vintage gear, or only left-handed guitars, etc.  have customer bases that extend far beyond the city where they are located. Some of these specialty shops could be more profitable if they closed their shop, and concentrated on online sales that are already their mainstay.  The big hole in the retail part of the industry is where the former "we used to be the big guys in town" dealers once dominated. Just this month, the last of the former "big guys" in Houston is closing down after being in business for over 60 years. My agenda is for the combined efforts of manufacturers and retailers to sell as much musical gear as they can.

WAdealingwithrumorsandpredictionsofgloomanddoom. - most of us are aware of your background in MI retail, which for me at least, gives your opinions some weight. So why do you have to be that guy that says "Since my opinion is based on fact, and your opinion is different than mine, yours must be based on a personal agenda?" Can't you just admit that a differing opinion could be equally val

 

Okay, that's all well and good, but what is this "personal agenda" you referred to? That choice of words implies that his opinion is based on feelings and emotions or a personal dislike for GC, rather than being based on his own business experiences and research. You seem to think that because you have worked for manufacturers, you can look down your nose at the opinions of retailers.

Another way you might want to look at it - your agenda is just as personal as his.  

 

WRONG! My agenda is, indeed, as personal as yours or Franke's. If you think that I look down my nose at the opinions of retailers, you're as wrong as wrong could be. The retailers were my partners. And, partners in business can be in sync with each other most of the time or they can have differences that can be aired out. But, adversarial business relationships rarely last for very long until they are, either mitigated (lessened) or terminated. I had many long-lasting business relationships with retailers with whom I disagreed on many issues. However, we had a good understanding about how that retailer would represent the products of my company. I probably had a higher percentage of small music stores on my dealer roster than most of the other reps in our company. We worked together to make Joe's Music the best Joe's Music it could be as opposed to trying to out-GC Guitar Center. I think that if Franke and I could have worked together, we probably would have learned from each other.


Edited by W&A Player, Yesterday, 08:44 AM.

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#60
noreastbob

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I've never been a big GC shopper. Partly due to convenience and partly due to the fact that I've always been pretty long term stable in my gear. Major updates have been separated by multiple decades. I do prefer the differing levels in professionalism and attention between drum-only shops and the GC mega equipment environment. Their presence has helped keep prices competitive when dealing with the specialty drum shops though.

Aside from that, I've been to a few GCs upon occasion over the years and have noticed, a stark downsizing has taken place. My guess is they can easily take this route to remain in business if they so choose. They may well not choose to do so as their MO always seemed to be from the perspective of "Giant slays the Little Guys".

How and if they choose to deal with the generational market changes will be made in the higher pay grade arena of that corporate structure.

Thank God for DCOP. (NH)


Edited by noreastbob, Yesterday, 12:53 PM.

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