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Are New Beats loud?

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#1
anthony marquart

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 Ive been playing them for years.. love the sound.. but it is occurring to me that most of the time the open hat sound is too loud in the mix.. not just amplified but un-mic'd as well.

 

I need something a bit darker,.. dryer maybe.

 

Suggestions?


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#2
idrum4fun

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My New Beats (I'm the original owner) are from the early 70's and sound wonderful! Not loud at all. However, weight-wise, mine are on the light side. Newer versions are heavier, with a louder sound. My set can give a very "washy" sound when slightly open and beautiful pin-point definition when closed!

 

-Mark


Edited by idrum4fun, 12 February 2018 - 11:03 AM.

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#3
DannyPattersonMusic

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The few New Beats I've played (90's to current) all seemed on the louder side to my ears.  That's why I went with a mixed set of hats for years (K Custom Dark top over an Avedis Mastersound bottom) and now these days Kerope hi-hats.


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#4
Mongrel

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I have a set of 15" purchased in 1978 that are pretty mellow and nicely balanced.

I have a set of 14" from the late 80s\early 90s that are just obnoxious. Not just loud volume but harsh in the wrong context.

I just bought a set of 14" redesigned As that are pretty much perfect-volume, tone, chic and wash.

My surprise combination is a late 90s Quick Beat top under the New A top. Lightweight great tone and balance. A prononced chic but not overbearing. They work very well in the acoustic stuff I've been playing.
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#5
Redbeard77

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If you want darker and dryer go with Ks.


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#6
anthony marquart

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I need to bring the volume down.. I love the stick definition I get,.. the actual sound fits.. just so loud.. and snare mic pics it up and floods our mix sometimes..

 

Ok Guys.. Im shopping for Hat's,.. whatcha got?


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#7
Mongrel

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Anthony, do you have a crash cymbal the same size as your hats?

Try a crash over the New Beat top before you spend your cash. Maybe just the ticket.
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#8
AtlantaDrumGuy

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I say keep them. They’re still good to have around. But there might be better options when it comes to wash. What I do like is the stick articulation and chick sound. You might find that having a few pairs is best....

Another idea is to take your existing pair, and try different combinations...maybe a different top, etc. Do a lookup on Zildjian 3 hat pack video to see what I mean. Do not sell the NBs. They are perfect for certain settings. Especially with a little distance out front, you’ll probably find they aren’t that loud in context. Peter Erskine often uses a new pair.

Edited by AtlantaDrumGuy, 12 February 2018 - 02:42 PM.

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#9
anthony marquart

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I probly won't sell them. I have 2 pair. old ad a redesigned. One at the rehearsal space and the other on the home kit.. old are darker and a bit woody sounding (and loud). The redesigns are brighter and loud. I do like them,.. just listening to some rehearsals and some gig recordings.. too much hat presents overall.. too bright to loud,..

 

I don't have a 14 inch crash to try unfortunately.

 

You guys like te K custom line overall? I have a line on a full set.. hat's crashes and ride.


Edited by anthony marquart, 12 February 2018 - 03:39 PM.

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#10
organicdrummer

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Hi hats are tricky. It seems like you're either fighting them being too loud or, conversely, not loud enough. Darker hats sometimes have issues cutting through a louder band.

In general though, I think we tend to play hi hats with waaaay more gusto than needed. In other words, our precieved hi hat "mezzo forte" usually translates as "fortissimo". Laying back dynamically really helps, if possible. The hi hat is such a dynamic instrument. It really can showcase or expose your technique.

If your New Beats are too loud, at the risk of sounding condescending, I'd say to try and play at half of your current dynamic level. Obtain a room recording and reassess. If the hats are still too loud, consider larger and thinner hats.

15" New Beats usually sounds a bit more tame than the 14". "Darker" hats might not be the answer, as some "dark" cymbals are atypically bright. But thinner cymbals are usually comparatively quieter.

So, to summarize, try and modify your technique and dynamic approach and see if that works. If not, try something larger and lighter. I'd say 15" K Light hats.
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#11
idrum4fun

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am...what size and style of stick are you using? I use lighter sticks with wood tips to get the sound I like. Just a suggestion!

 

-Mark


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#12
anthony marquart

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 I use lighter sticks.. extended versions of 7A's,. 5A's,..almost always wood tips unless I find a good sale. I knew the "play quieter" comments were going to come. And yes technique can be a factor.  Not having the hats to far open,.. etc,.. I do work in these things..  Thanks for all your inputs.. 

 

I can use all I can get.. sounds like I need a pair of 15s maybe, though about this before.. $$$$$


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#13
organicdrummer

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If it came across that way, I didn't intend the "play quieter" remark be a knock. So, apologies if that was the case. I remember I came to a similar conclusion in my own playing, and one that I'm still working on everyday. My hats and snare were always waaay louder than the rest of my kit. Recording myself really helped me realize how much more cut and perceived volume you get with the snare and hi hat. In both cases, what I though were "quiet" hits actually got recorded as basically equal volume to my "LOUD/normal" hits.

If you have easy access to any recording device, even a smartphone, I'd reccomend at least trying a test recording to see exactly how you sound out in front of the kit. I was shocked at how well the snare and hi hat cut, versus, say, the floor tom. It's not always 100% discernible from the drivers seat.

It sounds like you have heard your hi hats in the mix of a band, which is great. That's what prompted this thread. But it might help to hear those hats in your own personal internal solo mix. You might be thinking that you're inputting piano dynamics, but, actually, you're outputting forte levels. It might just be that your internal dynamic balance needs a recalibration.

Anyway, it's a simple test to try that might save you the need for new hats


Best of luck!!
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#14
pH12

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I play 15" mid-70's New Beats on the heavy side, love them, they're good and yes, loud.  About a year ago I bought 14" Paiste Blue Label 602, sound edge, they are light in weight, very clean, bright and relatively quiet to my ears, great for quiet stuff.  Also use 13" K/Z combo they are, on the bright side but also don't "take over the show" like my good old New Beats.  Have fun on your search A.M.!


Edited by pH12, 12 February 2018 - 05:44 PM.

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#15
douglasfir

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Just tell them to hush.
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#16
idrum4fun

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 I use lighter sticks.. extended versions of 7A's,. 5A's,..almost always wood tips unless I find a good sale. I knew the "play quieter" comments were going to come. And yes technique can be a factor.  Not having the hats to far open,.. etc,.. I do work in these things..  Thanks for all your inputs.. 

 

I can use all I can get.. sounds like I need a pair of 15s maybe, though about this before.. $$$$$

Thanks for confirming this. My educated guess says that it may be time for a new set of hats. Sounds like you might like K's. I've also had great luck with vintage (60's - 70's) A's. I scored a set of "Light" hats that are fantastic. Of course, it really helps to hear them first, rather than buying blindly. Really hope you find what you're looking for. I know they are out there!

 

-Mark


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#17
D. B. Cooper

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I currently play a beautiful set of 14" new beats. 60's stamp, forget the weights but probably medium over medium heavy.

They were exactly what I wanted after I played a thinner set of 15" A's from the 70's.
Of course, I now regret selling those 15's as they were perfect just not what I needed at the time playing in a very loud band.
Someday I want to find another pair of them.


15", probably vintage Avedis on the lighter side of medium are exactly what you are looking for.
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#18
AtlantaDrumGuy

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Or maybe try a darker top with the NB top as the bottom cymbal. I think that would work out.

Edited by AtlantaDrumGuy, 13 February 2018 - 12:14 PM.

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#19
JazzDrumGuy

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Depends on the weight.   Also, could be too bright?  If so, bury them for 6 mos!  Also, put some tape on the insides of each one - like a 2" strip at 12/3/6/9 perpendicular to the center hole of both top & bottom.......

 

K's may do the job but will be lower volume......


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#20
funkypoodle

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My 15's are essentially NB's and loud. My quiet HH's are an old pair of Paiste 404's. They're sloshy, quiet & feel very controlled. They have less stick definition than heavier hats for sure, but they do a great job in the studio, on quieter gigs & have a nice fast action on my HH stands compared to my 15's.


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