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Ludwig black and white badges

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#1
lestan451

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Hey guys,
Whats the difference between black & white badged and blue & olive badged Ludwigs. Is it based on when they were made, or differences in models?
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#2
K.O.

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I believe the B/W badge was reserved primarily for Ludwig's less expensive drum lines such as the original Rocker series. It was used alongside the B/O badge and the modern keystones.It still survives today on the Acrolite snare drums (among others) which, despite being one of the best sounding snare drums money can buy, is considered a lower priced "student" model drum.

Of course with Ludwig there are no hard and fast rules so there is always the possibility of a B/W badge turning up on a top of the line drum...but generally speaking they were confined to the cheaper ones.
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#3
Luddite

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You can also still get a black and white badge on the 300 series import snares. I still have the 302 6.5x14 chrome over steel---outstanding drum for the money and nearly as good as my Supra. The 5x14 300 and the 6.5x14 brass are very nice as well.
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#4
AgDrumma07

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I saw a B/W badge Ludwig snare paired up with a firewood kit at a pawn shop last weekend. It was up on a high shelf, but after staring at it, I noticed it had a B/W badge, Ludwig engraved butt plate, bowtie lugs and a muffler just like an Acro. The shell did not have the ridge down the center like an Acro, rather it was more of a brushed aluminum kind of deal. Looked like a low-end snare, so I didn't bother to check it out.

Anybody know what I'm talking about?
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#5
K.O.

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AgDrumma07 said:

I saw a B/W badge Ludwig snare paired up with a firewood kit at a pawn shop last weekend. It was up on a high shelf, but after staring at it, I noticed it had a B/W badge, Ludwig engraved butt plate, bowtie lugs and a muffler just like an Acro. The shell did not have the ridge down the center like an Acro, rather it was more of a brushed aluminum kind of deal. Looked like a low-end snare, so I didn't bother to check it out.

Anybody know what I'm talking about?


Sounds almost like an aluminum Standard snare shell, which didn't have a bead (but otherwise was the same as the acro and supra spun shell), but then it shouldn't have had the bow-tie lugs and the badge would be the "U" shaped standard badge not the B/W version of the B/O badge. There were some wooden shelled rocker drums covered in metal finishes that used that badge...they would look as you described, although more typically with a chrome finish. Could it have been one of those?

Here's a picture of a Rocker series set from the '84 catalog...it sports the B/W badges while the regular Ludwigs in the same catalog have the traditional B/O badges. These rockers used the small "classic" lug rather than the smooth "Standard" style lug that was used on later Rocker variants.
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#6
AgDrumma07

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K.O. said:

AgDrumma07 said:

I saw a B/W badge Ludwig snare paired up with a firewood kit at a pawn shop last weekend. It was up on a high shelf, but after staring at it, I noticed it had a B/W badge, Ludwig engraved butt plate, bowtie lugs and a muffler just like an Acro. The shell did not have the ridge down the center like an Acro, rather it was more of a brushed aluminum kind of deal. Looked like a low-end snare, so I didn't bother to check it out.

Anybody know what I'm talking about?


Sounds almost like an aluminum Standard snare shell, which didn't have a bead (but otherwise was the same as the acro and supra spun shell), but then it shouldn't have had the bow-tie lugs and the badge would be the "U" shaped standard badge not the B/W version of the B/O badge. There were some wooden shelled rocker drums covered in metal finishes that used that badge...they would look as you described, although more typically with a chrome finish. Could it have been one of those?

Here's a picture of a Rocker series set from the '84 catalog...it sports the B/W badges while the regular Ludwigs in the same catalog have the traditional B/O badges. These rockers used the small "classic" lug rather than the smooth "Standard" style lug that was used on later Rocker variants.


No, I wouldn't say it was a chrome finish. "Brushed aluminum" probably wasn't a very good description. It looked "cheaper", something like this:

Posted Image

or the outside of a foil gum wrapper.
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#7
cdlaine

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Sir,

Might want to check out one of these ... frequently pooh-pooed by the connoiseurs...I believe this to be the same
shell set-up as the L-600 Chrome over wood (cept' this one has ebony wrap) ...usually found with brownish beige
granitone - type painted interior.... I've found the drum to be very user friendly and easy to tune (nice bearing edges). Delivers classic woodsy tone at reduced prices. My snare is 4 ply. I like it... I suspect that at some point may move up the
food chain in drummer appreciation.

Peace, Chas



[attachment=22450:7_0db12051c5ed383986ceaad8abb6a375]
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#8
AgDrumma07

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cdlaine said:

Sir,

Might want to check out one of these ... frequently pooh-pooed by the connoiseurs...I believe this to be the same
shell set-up as the L-600 Chrome over wood (cept' this one has ebony wrap) ...usually found with brownish beige
granitone - type painted interior.... I've found the drum to be very user friendly and easy to tune (nice bearing edges). Delivers classic woodsy tone at reduced prices. My snare is 4 ply. I like it... I suspect that at some point may move up the
food chain in drummer appreciation.

Peace, Chas



[attachment=0]after rehab......jpg[/attachment]



Do those have a name or number at all? What can you get one for?
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#9
cdlaine

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as above...the L-600. Again...not fully appreciated ... have seen them from $75.00 - $125.00.

Some here own the COW version... Gack to some... (thin shell plys) I have no complaints about this snares sonic performance or cost.

Peace, Chas


[attachment=1]Ludwig..brownish-speckled Granitone interior paint.....jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=2]Ludwig L-600 bearing edge.....jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=22451:7_5a4c69c7a497c4f7db47f7b9e9d79da0]
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#10
K.O.

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AgDrumma07 said:

No, I wouldn't say it was a chrome finish. "Brushed aluminum" probably wasn't a very good description. It looked "cheaper", something like this:


At some point Ludwig dropped the real chromed metal wrap and switched to the plastic version, and that often didn't age so well so sometimes it can almost look brushed. Using a too strong cleansing agent on it can damage it in that way too. Even when in good shape it does have a "cheaper" look to it than an actual metal or metal wrapped drum.

Also I believe there was an actual wrap offered by Ludwig at some point in the early 80's that looked like brushed stainless or aluminum but I'm fairly certain that was not available on the B/W badged drums.

I've bought at least one of these wooden rocker snares over the years just for the parts. The wrap (plastic chrome) was trashed and partially spray painted but it had eight good bowties, a P-85, butt, snares, hoops & rods for $75 (everything one would need to clone a Jazzfest besides a shell and badge). You couldn't get all those parts individually for anything approaching that price. If I remember right the 4ply drum did not sound bad at all, but I had bought it specifically because I needed those parts for another project so I did tear it down.
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#11
OldandGold

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I saw a black and white badge snare at a pawn shop. The drum was metal pained black with silver flake. Was this a new or old drum i've never seen anything like it. They wanted like 220 for it, im thinkin that was high because they had some acrolites there for 260 b/o. I liked the way the black and whit badge looked tho!
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#12
mlayton

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that was a black galaxy acrolite which is also called the blacrolite by many.they are newer drums(90's) but sound great. hes too high on that. i posted one from ebay last night for 80 bucks buy it now with extras.


mike

#13
bonzoleum

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When did the rockers originally come into production? They've been using the black & white badge for a while, as I've seen pointy edged black & white badges..
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#14
rsq911

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Hi everyone:

Don't forget the hardware decals with b/o or b/w. Initially, it was for heavy vs. light, then it they actually used the b/w on all the hardware for awhile.

Paul
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#15
FloydZKing

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In recent years it has seemed like the B/W badge denotes an imported drum, with the Acro (still?) being an exception.

I restored a set of those 4-ply Rockers a few years back and sold them to my bassist. The toms sound great on that set.
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