Jump to content

Photo

Vintage Ludwig vs. Rogers vs. Slingerland vs. Gretsch Question

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
72 replies to this topic

#61
tommy1

tommy1

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 416 posts
  • LocationNW Ohio
Find a set of early to mid 70`s 3 ply Slingerlands. I have a set of the lacquer finished ones and they sound awesome and that is with pinstripes!. I also have a set of 68 Luddys that sound great. I like the sound of those tubs big time. And then there is a set of 52 Radio Kings that I also enjoy playing. The RK`s have there own sound for sure, they don`t sound like the Luddy`s or the 70`s Slingy`s. Heck , I like um all !! I you held a gun on me and made me choose, I would take the Slingy`s. But that is by MY EARS. I am a 3 ply man! and a analog man! LOL Hope that I did not muddy up the water for you. Good luck and post pics when you get a kit. Tommy


  • 0

#62
Pickinator

Pickinator

    Advanced Forum Guru

  • Members
  • 1,961 posts
  • LocationEagle River WI
I like the Rogers (1963-1968) best. Old Slingerland has a nice feel; they almost play themselves. Ludwigs can sound good but the build quality was hit or miss. Gretsch has never sounded good to me; the snares were especially hard for me to get a good sound out of.

Stay with 60s Rogers or Slingerland as a good 2nd place. I am biased and have both.
  • 0

#63
charlesm

charlesm

    Advanced Snr. Member

  • Members
  • 547 posts
  • LocationNY-metro
Here's just one more player's take, in the throes of insomnia...impressions of vintage kits owned and played.

Slingerland BDP 20-12-16, mid-'60s (owned) - This was my first vintage kit. I lusted after that Sling BDP wrap for awhile, which is a thing of sheer beauty. I was never crazy about the kit sonically. I found the drums to be very soft in volume and just not powerful. The kick was especially disappointing...no real punch or volume. Definitely a round, warm tone. Nice for low-volume playing, but that's about it. I would describe the drums as very "pillowy" and soft in feel. Not my thing. '70s Slingerland kits that I played seemed to have much more authority and power.


Rogers Pink Champagne Sparkle Clev. Holiday 20-12-16, c. 1964 (owned) - Found this in a local store dirt cheap. $250 for the kit. My first contact with Rogers. Playing these drums was a revelation. They felt and sounded industrial-strength compared to the Slings. The shells were much heavier and denser...very solid feel. I read that the Rogers/Keller shells of that time were made from old-growth wood, over 300 years old. Chromed brass hardware also factored in--very classy. I remember thinking that the tone was much more "modern" compared to the Slings. To me, that meant a sound that was warm but also brighter, had much more volume, sustain, and much more openness in general. I noted, in fact, that the bearing-edge cut WAS more of a modern profile--sharp vs. rounded. In particular, the little 14x20 kick was a POWERHOUSE. Never gigged or did any substantial playing with this kit, though. Just wasn't a Pink Champagne kind of guy. So, I swapped kits with a fellow trader after about a month for...


Rogers BDP Clev. Holiday 20-12-16 (owned) - Essentially of the exact same vintage as the Pink Champagnes. In construction and tone, it was pretty much identical, much to my delight. Obviously, these were very well-made, consistently high-quality drums. I owned only this kit for 10 years and did everything with it--gigs, small tours, recording, etc. All kinds of genres--rock, jazz, singer-songwriter, etc. Handled everything with ease. Very versatile drums. Not a one-trick-pony sound. Again, the 14x20 kick drum was phenomenal, among the best-sounding kick drums I've ever played. Huge, punchy sound and unexpected power and low-end for its size. I had many unsolicited compliments on its tone on gigs. Sold that kit a few years ago and I miss it, especially the kick.


Ludwig Blue Sparkle 22-13-16 '60s (played)

My high school had this kit, and I remember it clearly to this day. White-interior 3-plys. Very warm, round tone. Shortish sustain. The typical Ludwig 3-ply sound we all know. My favorite drum was the 14x22 kick. Big, warm, punchy sound with lots of low end but not the attack of the Rogers sound. The sound of '60s Ludwigs, to me, IS similar to Slingerland but with more guts...more power. I think, again, that '70s Slingerlands are a different story in that they seem like more powerful drums than their '60s counterparts.


Gretsch RB WMP 22-12-14sn '50s (played)

Friend had this kit in his basement. Used it for practice and some recording. Only had the 22, 12, and a 6.5x14 wood snare. Warm drums, focused sound, lots of fundamental tone, short sustain. The kick was my favorite...very punchy. Not as open as the Ludwig 22. The 12" tom was OK--warm but not able to get the kind of openness or sustain that I usually like. The snare was typical Gretsch RB: warm but muffled tone, no crispness at all. One cool sound, that's about it. Overall, I'm not a big fan of Gretsch until they modernized and started using conventionally sized shells. I do understand the magic of the RB sound on all those great jazz recordings, etc., but it's just not the feel I like when playing.


For me, the standout aspect of my vintage-drum experience has definitely been discovering Rogers and the Rogers 14x20 kick drums in particular. They just have a magic to them. When I found out that another Rogers kit with a 20" kick was for sale at a local store, I went there to check it out just to see if the kick also had *that* sound. Sure enough, it did. I guess it's just inherent in the density and reflectivity of the shell composition.

At the moment, I don't own any vintage kits, but I'd love another Rogers 20-12-16 kit someday; I really like the meeting of vintage appeal with something a little modern going on.
  • 0

#64
publius

publius

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 226 posts

So I have been jonesing to let go of one of my modern kits and get a vintage kit. I have had vintage Ludwig and Rogers kits, but I am wondering if there are really any sonic differences between the "big 4"manufacturers from the 60s.

I tend to think of early 60s Ludwigs as very warm sounding, without a ton of volume or attack. The Rogers kit I had seemed sort of like a modern kit, although it was about 15 years ago and I can barely remember. Any Gretsch kit I have heard from the 60s sounds very focused and maybe a bit higher pitched (tuning, maybe?). The Slingerland kits I have heard/played on sounded somewhat similar to the Ludwigs.

Can anybody else throw in their two cents?

Thanks!


i'm too lazy to find the link, but somewhere on the steve maxwell site is a video where they show examples of each and the bearing edge differences that are primarily responsible for the difference in sound. should be just what you're looking for.
  • 0

#65
Chunkaway

Chunkaway

    DFO Potentate

  • Members
  • 4,780 posts
  • LocationSingapore, Singapore

Here's just one more player's take, in the throes of insomnia...impressions of vintage kits owned and played.

Slingerland BDP 20-12-16, mid-'60s (owned) - This was my first vintage kit. I lusted after that Sling BDP wrap for awhile, which is a thing of sheer beauty. I was never crazy about the kit sonically. I found the drums to be very soft in volume and just not powerful. The kick was especially disappointing...no real punch or volume. Definitely a round, warm tone. Nice for low-volume playing, but that's about it. I would describe the drums as very "pillowy" and soft in feel. Not my thing. '70s Slingerland kits that I played seemed to have much more authority and power.


Rogers Pink Champagne Sparkle Clev. Holiday 20-12-16, c. 1964 (owned) - Found this in a local store dirt cheap. $250 for the kit. My first contact with Rogers. Playing these drums was a revelation. They felt and sounded industrial-strength compared to the Slings. The shells were much heavier and denser...very solid feel. I read that the Rogers/Keller shells of that time were made from old-growth wood, over 300 years old. Chromed brass hardware also factored in--very classy. I remember thinking that the tone was much more "modern" compared to the Slings. To me, that meant a sound that was warm but also brighter, had much more volume, sustain, and much more openness in general. I noted, in fact, that the bearing-edge cut WAS more of a modern profile--sharp vs. rounded. In particular, the little 14x20 kick was a POWERHOUSE. Never gigged or did any substantial playing with this kit, though. Just wasn't a Pink Champagne kind of guy. So, I swapped kits with a fellow trader after about a month for...


Rogers BDP Clev. Holiday 20-12-16 (owned) - Essentially of the exact same vintage as the Pink Champagnes. In construction and tone, it was pretty much identical, much to my delight. Obviously, these were very well-made, consistently high-quality drums. I owned only this kit for 10 years and did everything with it--gigs, small tours, recording, etc. All kinds of genres--rock, jazz, singer-songwriter, etc. Handled everything with ease. Very versatile drums. Not a one-trick-pony sound. Again, the 14x20 kick drum was phenomenal, among the best-sounding kick drums I've ever played. Huge, punchy sound and unexpected power and low-end for its size. I had many unsolicited compliments on its tone on gigs. Sold that kit a few years ago and I miss it, especially the kick.


Ludwig Blue Sparkle 22-13-16 '60s (played)

My high school had this kit, and I remember it clearly to this day. White-interior 3-plys. Very warm, round tone. Shortish sustain. The typical Ludwig 3-ply sound we all know. My favorite drum was the 14x22 kick. Big, warm, punchy sound with lots of low end but not the attack of the Rogers sound. The sound of '60s Ludwigs, to me, IS similar to Slingerland but with more guts...more power. I think, again, that '70s Slingerlands are a different story in that they seem like more powerful drums than their '60s counterparts.


Gretsch RB WMP 22-12-14sn '50s (played)

Friend had this kit in his basement. Used it for practice and some recording. Only had the 22, 12, and a 6.5x14 wood snare. Warm drums, focused sound, lots of fundamental tone, short sustain. The kick was my favorite...very punchy. Not as open as the Ludwig 22. The 12" tom was OK--warm but not able to get the kind of openness or sustain that I usually like. The snare was typical Gretsch RB: warm but muffled tone, no crispness at all. One cool sound, that's about it. Overall, I'm not a big fan of Gretsch until they modernized and started using conventionally sized shells. I do understand the magic of the RB sound on all those great jazz recordings, etc., but it's just not the feel I like when playing.


For me, the standout aspect of my vintage-drum experience has definitely been discovering Rogers and the Rogers 14x20 kick drums in particular. They just have a magic to them. When I found out that another Rogers kit with a 20" kick was for sale at a local store, I went there to check it out just to see if the kick also had *that* sound. Sure enough, it did. I guess it's just inherent in the density and reflectivity of the shell composition.

At the moment, I don't own any vintage kits, but I'd love another Rogers 20-12-16 kit someday; I really like the meeting of vintage appeal with something a little modern going on.


That is a great rundown on the different brands. Thank you very much!
  • 0

#66
Chunkaway

Chunkaway

    DFO Potentate

  • Members
  • 4,780 posts
  • LocationSingapore, Singapore


So I have been jonesing to let go of one of my modern kits and get a vintage kit. I have had vintage Ludwig and Rogers kits, but I am wondering if there are really any sonic differences between the "big 4"manufacturers from the 60s.

I tend to think of early 60s Ludwigs as very warm sounding, without a ton of volume or attack. The Rogers kit I had seemed sort of like a modern kit, although it was about 15 years ago and I can barely remember. Any Gretsch kit I have heard from the 60s sounds very focused and maybe a bit higher pitched (tuning, maybe?). The Slingerland kits I have heard/played on sounded somewhat similar to the Ludwigs.

Can anybody else throw in their two cents?

Thanks!


i'm too lazy to find the link, but somewhere on the steve maxwell site is a video where they show examples of each and the bearing edge differences that are primarily responsible for the difference in sound. should be just what you're looking for.


Thank you!
  • 0

#67
Mcjnic

Mcjnic

    Advanced Snr. Member

  • Members
  • 524 posts
Never really 'got' the appeal of the Gretsch drums. Just my ears, I guess. Love the natural inner Luddy's and the mid-60s Rogers ... but, my fave hasn't changed; 70s 3ply Slingerland. I currently have several of them and they are consistently great. Excellent edges and build. Oddly, not crazy 'bout the 60s Slingerland sounds. Just a bit too 'thuddy' to me. But man oh man ... those 70s drums do sing.
  • 0

#68
RacerBuzz

RacerBuzz

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts
  • LocationFt Lauderdale
So where would you guys suggest I try for my best options on a way or place to list and sell a set of 1963 Rogers besides on this forum or on E-Bay? Where is most of the selling action taking place today? Probably a bad time of the year right now just before Christmas. I'd love some feed back on my current E-Bay ad wording from anyone on here who has had success selling or buying Rogers drums recently. I have been away from the drumming scene for quite a while.

Thanks in advance for any input or advise.

BUZZ
  • 0

#69
Cauldronics

Cauldronics

    DFO Potentate

  • Members
  • 3,385 posts
  • LocationSF Bay Area
My Rogers XP-8 kit is the punchiest out of all I have, the kick in particular. With coated ambassadors on the rack toms, clear performance II on the floor tom, and clear PS3 on the kick (ambassador reso on all) it occupies a middle ground between vintage sounding and modern. With all clear heads it would sound slightly more modern, gaining a little more attack and brightness. Overtones don't come out of these drums even if I tune them badly. I don't know how Rogers did that considering the triple flanged hoops and sharp bearing edges.

To me it is the ultimate middle ground kit between sounding modern and vintage.
  • 0

#70
Chunkaway

Chunkaway

    DFO Potentate

  • Members
  • 4,780 posts
  • LocationSingapore, Singapore

So where would you guys suggest I try for my best options on a way or place to list and sell a set of 1963 Rogers besides on this forum or on E-Bay? Where is most of the selling action taking place today? Probably a bad time of the year right now just before Christmas. I'd love some feed back on my current E-Bay ad wording from anyone on here who has had success selling or buying Rogers drums recently. I have been away from the drumming scene for quite a while.

Thanks in advance for any input or advise.

BUZZ


What are the sizes? Finish? Anything else you can tell me about it? You can PM me.
  • 0

#71
RacerBuzz

RacerBuzz

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts
  • LocationFt Lauderdale


So where would you guys suggest I try for my best options on a way or place to list and sell a set of 1963 Rogers besides on this forum or on E-Bay? Where is most of the selling action taking place today? Probably a bad time of the year right now just before Christmas. I'd love some feed back on my current E-Bay ad wording from anyone on here who has had success selling or buying Rogers drums recently. I have been away from the drumming scene for quite a while.

Thanks in advance for any input or advise.

BUZZ


What are the sizes? Finish? Anything else you can tell me about it? You can PM me.


Sorry, forgot to put in the E-Bay link.
http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649

Let me know what you think.
BUZZ
  • 0

#72
RacerBuzz

RacerBuzz

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts
  • LocationFt Lauderdale



So where would you guys suggest I try for my best options on a way or place to list and sell a set of 1963 Rogers besides on this forum or on E-Bay? Where is most of the selling action taking place today? Probably a bad time of the year right now just before Christmas. I'd love some feed back on my current E-Bay ad wording from anyone on here who has had success selling or buying Rogers drums recently. I have been away from the drumming scene for quite a while.

Thanks in advance for any input or advise.

BUZZ


What are the sizes? Finish? Anything else you can tell me about it? You can PM me.


Sorry, forgot to put in the E-Bay link.
http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649

Let me know what you think.
BUZZ


That didn't work so try this link.
http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649
  • 0

#73
Chunkaway

Chunkaway

    DFO Potentate

  • Members
  • 4,780 posts
  • LocationSingapore, Singapore




So where would you guys suggest I try for my best options on a way or place to list and sell a set of 1963 Rogers besides on this forum or on E-Bay? Where is most of the selling action taking place today? Probably a bad time of the year right now just before Christmas. I'd love some feed back on my current E-Bay ad wording from anyone on here who has had success selling or buying Rogers drums recently. I have been away from the drumming scene for quite a while.

Thanks in advance for any input or advise.

BUZZ


What are the sizes? Finish? Anything else you can tell me about it? You can PM me.


Sorry, forgot to put in the E-Bay link.
http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649

Let me know what you think.
BUZZ


That didn't work so try this link.
http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649


Beautiful! Just WAY out of my price range. Good luck to you!
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users