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Ludwig Accent CS or Tama Rockstar

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#1
scratchaholic

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Merry Christmas. New to this site, 1st post. I'm a DJ by musical trade and I used to drum when I was young, just simple beats and rythems, nothing special. I started getting the itch again. So i'm torn between either buying a new Ludwig Accent CS ($480) or a used but barley touched Tama Rockstar ($365). I kinna lookin for toms with a warm type sound, a little deep sounding. Don't know how to describe it, but less of a high pitch hollow sound and more of a warm deep sound :scratch:

Plus which do you think is better as far as hardware and stability. kinna iffy on that stand mounted floor tom on the rockstar. But what will take decent abuse since i'll prolly be abit heavy handed my first time back. Let me know what you guys think, thanks.

Oh, and the Ludwig will come with the Zildjian 18"crash and 14" highhat
The Tama will come with 3 knockoff cymbals and a high hat, but also come with 3 double braced cymbal stands and a high hat stand.

So if I get the Tama, i'll prolly have to upgrade to a cymbal pack and if I go with the Ludwig, i'll prolly have to get another stand and zildjian cymbal.
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#2
AgDrumma07

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I'll vote for the Rockstars. Having played them for over 8 years, they have been almost completely rock solid. Personally, I hate the stand mounted FT. I took the mount and put brackets and legs on it. MUCH more solid, you can do this for under $100 if you want the new Tama iso-feet.

I don't know much about the Ludwigs, but there are a bunch of Lud fans on here.

Tama's hardware is also very solid, but very heavy. Depends on what you want to lug around.

Post pics/links of the sets you're looking at so we can help you better.

Welcome to the forum!
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#3
EK71

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Hey Scratch,

Long time Ludwig player here. Just picked up a 5 pc Ludwig Accent CS for a secondary gig kit. I was really disappointed with the cymbals. Don't let the "Zildjian" name fool you. They're made by Zildjian, sure. But they're the Planet Z line and would make good pie plates, frizbees, or possibly a wall clock art project. Terrible. The 18" crash/ride is maybe usable. But the hats are strictly garbage. So, if the cymbals are factoring into your decision between the two kits, just know that those Planet Z's are trash.

As for the hardware, I actually use quite a bit of Tama hardware and like their cymbal stands and bass pedals. Sounds like you're getting more cymbal stands with the Tama kit than the Luds. And trust me, you're going to have to replace the cymbals that come with that Ludwig Accent kit anyway. BUT, there's the mounted floor tom issue....

Decisions, decisions...

Normally I'd be campaigning for the Luds, but since the Accents are a cheaper line (Made in China) they're probably actually comparable to the Tama's. The Tama's, in this case, might be your better value. And you'll have some money left over to put toward some decent cymbals.
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#4
scratchaholic

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Cool, thanks for the replies, so far 2 for rockstar. I've read a few other ppl saying the same thing about the planet z symbals and heard em on youtube and they do sound kinna crappy, don't know much about drums, but they just kinna sound bland, like no personality or zing. So I guess with either set i'll have to drop loot on a decent cymbal pack.

I may also just keep the stand mount floor tom and add a deeper floor tom to the set. Again, putting the cart ahead of the horse.

But what about the sound of the toms. Whenever I hear the rockstar set on youtube, it kinna doesn't have the warm sound I'm looking for like the accent. I don't know which rockstar it is or what year, but here's the pic of it.

Dope looking black to red fade. Anyone know what model/year? The cymbals not pictured, but they are cheap knockoffs.
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Here's the Ludwig. Regular Accent CS
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#5
AgDrumma07

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That first Tama pic is a Starclassic kit, not a Rockstar kit. Those are WAY more expensive than Rockstars.
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#6
scratchaholic

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That first Tama pic is a Starclassic kit, not a Rockstar kit. Those are WAY more expensive than Rockstars.


Hmmm. I just saw that when I looked it up online and the Starclassic is the same color scheme as the on in the pic, but I just called the guy and he said it's a rockstar and the one in the pic is his and not a copy n paste. Was there a year where they offered the rockstar in this color scheme or a limited amount? He just informed me that he also got a Pearl Forum for sale for $380.

Goin to his house to find out it's a starclassic, 1 of 13 in that color and buy it for $365 would be too good to be true. I just don't have that kinna luck, lol. I better not go there and only to see it's not the same color fade as in the pic and it's a different set - thats more of my type of luck. :cry:
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#7
AgDrumma07

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That first Tama pic is a Starclassic kit, not a Rockstar kit. Those are WAY more expensive than Rockstars.


Hmmm. I just saw that when I looked it up online and the Starclassic is the same color scheme as the on in the pic, but I just called the guy and he said it's a rockstar and the one in the pic is his and not a copy n paste. Was there a year where they offered the rockstar in this color scheme or a limited amount? He just informed me that he also got a Pearl Forum for sale for $380.

Goin to his house to find out it's a starclassic, 1 of 13 in that color and buy it for $365 would be too good to be true. I just don't have that kinna luck, lol. I better not go there and only to see it's not the same color fade as in the pic and it's a different set - thats more of my type of luck. :cry:


If you can get THAT kit, for $365...DO IT! Starclassics will have die case hoops on their toms and the sparkle in the picture is an SC thing too. If he really does have a Rockstar set with a faded lacquer finish, it will be a Rockstar Custom kit. Basically the same thing, just with better finish options.
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#8
scratchaholic

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That first Tama pic is a Starclassic kit, not a Rockstar kit. Those are WAY more expensive than Rockstars.


Hmmm. I just saw that when I looked it up online and the Starclassic is the same color scheme as the on in the pic, but I just called the guy and he said it's a rockstar and the one in the pic is his and not a copy n paste. Was there a year where they offered the rockstar in this color scheme or a limited amount? He just informed me that he also got a Pearl Forum for sale for $380.

Goin to his house to find out it's a starclassic, 1 of 13 in that color and buy it for $365 would be too good to be true. I just don't have that kinna luck, lol. I better not go there and only to see it's not the same color fade as in the pic and it's a different set - thats more of my type of luck. :cry:


If you can get THAT kit, for $365...DO IT! Starclassics will have die case hoops on their toms and the sparkle in the picture is an SC thing too. If he really does have a Rockstar set with a faded lacquer finish, it will be a Rockstar Custom kit. Basically the same thing, just with better finish options.


The one in the pic has the gold tama lettering which I can only find on the Starclassic pics, so either i'm gonna hit the drum lottery tomorrow or he's gonna screw me and i'm gonna drive all the way there and see a plain red regular Rockstar unlike the one in the pic. Either way, i'mm gonna go and check it out tomorrow.

BTW, what about the sound of the rockstar vs the Ludwig Accent. I want that deep warm tone bassy like tone out of the toms. Like this gretch blackhawk kit...
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=glXdPU_IFYU
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#9
AgDrumma07

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$365 for the Rockstars and all that hardware is a great deal.

One big thing to check out is the tom sizes and depths. If it is that Starclassic or a more modern Rockstar, they will have fusion size toms, typically 10, 12 and 14 with shallower depths. On those Ludwigs, it looks like the high toms are pretty similar but that FT will have a considerable difference being a 16 (I think) and having legs on the floor and being deeper. The kicks both look like 18x22.

Do you get a snare with either kit?
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#10
art

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The Tama's will have the Star-Cast tom mounting system so the toms will sound great. The Ludwigs have traditional holder mounted to the drum shell. I like the 14" tom mounted on the cymbal stand myself.
Tama's would be my choice.
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#11
scratchaholic

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$365 for the Rockstars and all that hardware is a great deal.

One big thing to check out is the tom sizes and depths. If it is that Starclassic or a more modern Rockstar, they will have fusion size toms, typically 10, 12 and 14 with shallower depths. On those Ludwigs, it looks like the high toms are pretty similar but that FT will have a considerable difference being a 16 (I think) and having legs on the floor and being deeper. The kicks both look like 18x22.

Do you get a snare with either kit?


Yea, snares with both. The ludwig is brand new for $480, the whole kit is pretty much everything in the pic. Here's the option specs...

Power kit Fusion Kit
22" x 16" Bass Drum 20" x 16" Bass Drum
12" x 10" Tom 10" x 8" Tom
13" x 11" Tom 12" x 10" Tom
16" x 16" Floor Tom 14" x 14" Floor Tom
14" x 6.5" Wood Snare 14" x 5" Wood Snare


Thats the other thing. Should I be looking for a "power kit" type of drum set with the bigger toms to get that deep warm sound? How does the size differ in sound like from the power kit to the fusion?
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#12
AgDrumma07

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$365 for the Rockstars and all that hardware is a great deal.

One big thing to check out is the tom sizes and depths. If it is that Starclassic or a more modern Rockstar, they will have fusion size toms, typically 10, 12 and 14 with shallower depths. On those Ludwigs, it looks like the high toms are pretty similar but that FT will have a considerable difference being a 16 (I think) and having legs on the floor and being deeper. The kicks both look like 18x22.

Do you get a snare with either kit?


Yea, snares with both. The ludwig is brand new for $480, the whole kit is pretty much everything in the pic. Here's the option specs...

Power kit Fusion Kit
22" x 16" Bass Drum 20" x 16" Bass Drum
12" x 10" Tom 10" x 8" Tom
13" x 11" Tom 12" x 10" Tom
16" x 16" Floor Tom 14" x 14" Floor Tom
14" x 6.5" Wood Snare 14" x 5" Wood Snare


Thats the other thing. Should I be looking for a "power kit" type of drum set with the bigger toms to get that deep warm sound? How does the size differ in sound like from the power kit to the fusion?


Well, we're dealing with two different beasts here. If you want a warm sound, either kit will work. For depth, obviously the power kit is the way to go. What kind of kick sound do you want?

There is a lot to be said for both kits. Is it possible to check out both before you decide? With the deeper toms, you may run into limited mounting problems because of the deeper shells. You'll also notice a difference in depth as far as the sound between the two snares.

As previously mentioned, the Star cast mounts are a HUGE plus for the Tamas. You'll notice a more open sound with those Tamas. The Rockstars have been a staple in intro kits for new drummers since they were first introduced so I don't think you can go wrong. Again, though, double check if they're Rockstars or Starclassics. If they're Starclassics (and you like the sound) jump on them like a cat on a mouse!
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#13
Luddite

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Hey Scratcha, welcome to the forum. I think that the Ludwig kit is actually the Accent CS Combo. The tom mounting system is a dead giveaway---the Combo has the Pearl style mounts that actually go inside of the tom shells and can inhibit the resonance and sustain. The Accent CS series has the same shells (Luan, or Philippine Mahogany), but have a superior L-arm mounting system with rims mounts on the mounted toms. Personally, although I'm a Ludwig guy (pretty obvious, going by my forum name :wink:), I would recommend the Rockstars, provided they're in decent shape. They're superior drums to the CS Combo's. And if a deep, warm sound is what you're after, head selection can make a big difference. 2 ply heads like Remo clear or coated Emperors, Pinstripes, or Evans coated or clear G2's, or EC2's should be able to get you where you want to be.
As far as cymbals, the Planet Z's are strictly beginner cymbals---chances are that whatever are on the Rockstars will be at least nearly as good, as good, or better. Either way, plan on watching Ebay, Craigslist or this forum to pick up some good quality pro cymbals. I've had very good luck here---I sold a china and then bought a very nice A Zildjian 18" crash off of here, traded another china for a like new Zildjian 16" A Custom crash, traded two Meinl MCS crashes and an old set of cheap Zildjian hats for 14" Zildjian New Beat hi-hats, and then bought a very nice 20" Ping Ride for $90 from Uncle Ike's Music. Factoring in the stuff that I sold and traded, my outlay came to less than $150. It took me three-four months to piece it all together, but there are some very good deals out there if you're patient, especially right now. Good luck!
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#14
scratchaholic

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Thanks guys. I guess i'll have to check em out tomorrow and see if they're the star classics which if they are i'll buy since they're like 2 grand :shock:. If it's a regular rockstar, i'll see if I like the sound which I hope since the hardware seems to be good compared to the accents, and if I don't like the sound, i'll prolly go with the accent since buying heads and cymbals might be out of my budget for a while (I also have a DJ/vinyl habit :wink: ) I'll let you guys know how it goes tomorrow. Thanks 4 the responces. This site's dope. Once I get my kit, i'll b coming here for advice and tips 4 sure.
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#15
motorhead

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I'd go with the Rockstars.They're a pretty well-built drum for the money,with strong hardware.Mike
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#16
scratchaholic

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I was supposed to meet the guy to check out the drums at 6pm yesterday. So I got out of work and called and right away I asked him if the drums were the same red to black fade with gold Tama lettering to confirm again. He said "yea, they're burgundee" I said red to black isn't burgundee. He said we'll they're not exactly like in the pic. So I asked him about the 3 cymbal stands and crashes, he said only 1 symbal stand and 1 high hat stand and the high hat and cymbal. Then he said he has to call the warehouse on Monday because he's not sure if it's still available but if i wanted to check out some kit called "basic" from germany, I can come by and take a look, at that point I just told him to call me when he's confirmed on the Tama kit.

Basically, sounded like a scam to me. So i'm most likely going with the new Ludwig accent. I'm gonna call 2day to see if they still got it, but i'm gonna go with the non cymbal kit and get a cymbal pack.

Any suggestions on $250 or so packs?
-Zildjian ZBT
-Sabian B8
-Meinl MCS
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#17
K.O.

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Not to further confuse the issue but you mentioned in an earlier post that you like the sound of some Gretsch Blackhawks that you heard. You might look into how much a set of those would run you. It would likely be in the same ballpark as the Ludwigs price-wise and the Blackhawks have a superior tom mounting system to the Pearl knock off arms that are on the accents.


If you can afford to move up a bit you could also check out the Gretsch Catalina lines which are a step up from the Blackhawks and still sell for a pretty reasonable amount (especially if you can find them used).

Like I said, not trying to add to your indecision, and there are plenty of other options you might want to explore as well (both new and used) but you did mention it earlier

I want that deep warm tone bassy like tone out of the toms. Like this Gretsch blackhawk kit...


So why not look into those as well?
It's kind of like...I saw this really neat Chevy...so should I buy a Ford or a Chrysler?
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#18
scratchaholic

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[quote name="K.O."]So why not look into those as well?
It's kind of like...I saw this really neat Chevy...so should I buy a Ford or a Chrysler?[/quote]

lol, bad comparison since i'm a die hard Ford guy :D. So i'd prolly go for a Focus over a Camaro :blackeye:

But yea, I kinna forgot to check out the Gretsch blackhawk kits one more time. I checked em out before and couldn't find a set with the high hat and cymbal stand and pedal for a price within my budget from what i can remember (I looked last week). I think because they stopped making em or somthing, they're hard to find. But i'll look around somemore before I deside to hand my money over for the ludwigs. I really do like the sound of those blackhawks and would like to have that kit over the accent and rockstar or swingstar.

BTW, whats the difference between the calalina and blackhawks as far as sound goes? Did the catalina replace the blackhawks?

Also, cymbal packages? Sabian B8, meinl MCS, zildjian ZBT?
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#19
AgDrumma07

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[quote name="scratchaholic"][quote name="K.O."]So why not look into those as well?
It's kind of like...I saw this really neat Chevy...so should I buy a Ford or a Chrysler?[/quote:2c2k284r]

lol, bad comparison since i'm a die hard Ford guy :D. So i'd prolly go for a Focus over a Camaro :blackeye:

But yea, I kinna forgot to check out the Gretsch blackhawk kits one more time. I checked em out before and couldn't find a set with the high hat and cymbal stand and pedal for a price within my budget from what i can remember (I looked last week). I think because they stopped making em or somthing, they're hard to find. But i'll look around somemore before I deside to hand my money over for the ludwigs. I really do like the sound of those blackhawks and would like to have that kit over the accent and rockstar or swingstar.

BTW, whats the difference between the calalina and blackhawks as far as sound goes? Did the catalina replace the blackhawks?

Also, cymbal packages? Sabian B8, meinl MCS, zildjian ZBT?[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Took me 5 seconds on Ebay to find this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

5 piece with snare stand, boom stand, hi hat stand and pedal. $549 plus a very reasonable $50 for shipping

And if you search "gretsch blackhawk" on Ebay, you'll find about two dozen of the same thing above, but with free shipping
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#20
K.O.

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Let me rephrase that...It's like you really like a Ford you see and then ask should I buy a Chevy or a Chrysler :) (I used to drive a 69 Camaro and now I indeed drive a Focus).


The Blackhawks are Gretsch's least expensive line. The Catalina series are the next step up and there are other series within the Catalina line (Club Rock, Club Mod, Club Jazz, Ash, and Maple).

I'm not really certain what the difference in the shells is between the Catalina Clubs and the Blackhawks but I think the Blackhawks use a basswood/poplar shell while the basic Catalinas are Luan (obviously the Catalina maples and ash are made from those respective woods). The hardware appears to be roughly the same on all of them. The Blackhawk sets are cataloged with the other hardware included while the Catalinas generally are sold as "Shell packs" which means you only get the tom holder hardware with the set.

The Blackhawk sets are shown in Gretsch's most recent catalog and also still on their website so whomever is saying they are discontinued either is misinformed, has a red hot just released news flash, or wants to sell you something else (hmmmm?).

Anyway snoop around a bit more. I'm pretty partial to Ludwigs too but I do think the Blackhawks are better than the Accents.

As far as cymbals...look into some Wuhans. They are actually cast cymbals made in China and while there are some dogs in their production they are generally better than the intro stuff made by Zildjian and the rest (The Wuhans are basically Chinese made knock-offs of the top of the line Zildjians as far as the way they are made).

http://drums-percuss...WRWXGB&ZYXSEM=0

http://www.musicians...Drum-Set?r=DFFR

http://www.gretschdr...fa=news&art=643

http://cgi.ebay.com/...%3A2%7C294%3A50
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