2Box pad not cooperating

Discussion in 'Electronic Drum Zone' started by Cauldronics, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. Cauldronics

    Cauldronics DFO Master

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    Compared to my other pads and triggers, the 2Box pad I have responds to hits that are barely above medium force with 100% velocity and the loudest strike is triggered from the computer (running Superior Drummer 2). This happens regardless of the gain and threshold settings being at their lowest value, and regardless of all the velocity curves I've tried in SD2.

    My modules are DTX 502 and DTX Multi-12. It doesn't seem to matter which module I use, either.

    Any ideas on how I can get the 2Box pad to perform like a "normal" pad? I'm thinking about adding a very thin piece of foam over the top of the piezo inside the pad to cut down sensitivity.

    It sucks because the pad catches every bounce of light buzz rolls and lower dynamic level playing, but immediately freaks out when hit with semi-moderate force.

    p.s. - I'm disappointed by the vdrums forum. They tend to brush off questions from people who are relatively new to e-drums, and there's not a lot of participation to begin with. Any other decent e-drum forums out there?
     
  2. dje31

    dje31 Well-Known Member

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    I can't give definite input as to how to fix your issue, but can give insight as to what might be happening.

    2Box just came out with a DrumIt Three module, that allows you to use non-2Box pads with their brain. So there must be a compatibility problem between the Yamaha, Alesis, Roland, Hart, etc., pads and 2Box brains, since 2Box addressed that with a brand new module.

    By extrapolation, you're having a compatibility issue between your 2Box pad and the Yamaha brain and multi-pad, so it makes sense that they don't play well together.

    I know the 2Box pads can use rubber, mylar, or mesh heads interchangeably. Have you tried swapping that out? It's possible that different heads will respond / send the signal differently enough to make a difference.

    Your best bet would be to contact their US presence, which is Hoshino / Tama / Ibanez, in Pennsylvania. If it can be sorted out, they'd be the ones who could for sure.

    Good hunting!
     
  3. Cauldronics

    Cauldronics DFO Master

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    The rubber pad reacts the same way as the mesh Remo silentstroke, although the Remo performs far better with light playing, but both go from light playing to 100% loud with almost nothing in between. I haven't yet tried the plastic ring that goes inside the rubber head on the mesh head instead, but that's my next experiment. Those parts aren't meant to go together, but it might change or improve something (or not!).

    I'd contact their stateside reps but the pad was given to me for free by a forum member (perhaps because he couldn't get it to work well, either?) and I don't know if they'd provide support since I'm not the original owner. Nothing to lose, though.

    I wasn't aware 2Box had developed another module that works with pads from other manufacturers, or that their own pads could be proprietary to the original module. If they are, that seems like terrible idea from a business standpoint. I have triggers and pads from 3 different manufacturers that all respond to module adjustments very similarly, except for the 2Box. That would seem to explain the problem.
     
  4. dje31

    dje31 Well-Known Member

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    Re: the free pad, considering that 2Box is a 2nd or 3rd tier player in eDrums right now, if I were working their tech support, I'd bend over backwards to accommodate a user of their products, regardless of how they came across it. That's good customer service, and good public relations. Nothing to lose in making a phone call to tech support.

    If I understand the company and its history, they're essentially the modern incarnation of what used to be ddrum before Armadillo Enterprises took them over and became more of an acoustic drum line.

    And ddrum was from the highly regarded Clavia Nord folks out of Sweden. Talk to your keyboard friends and bandmates...they're well respected, and are an open system, allowing you to upload free soundbanks that the MFR makes available and downloadable, as well as easily import your owns sounds. Which, to the best of my knowledge, none of the tier 1 MFRs allow you to do (easily, if at all).

    I'm not affiliated in any way with them myself, but appreciate and respect their products, and when finances allow, hope to be an owner and user.
     
  5. latzanimal

    latzanimal Very well Known Member

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    It is possible you have a loose wire. The harder impact will actually cause a double trigger with the second hit being much softer...

    Time to take the trigger apart.....
     
  6. Cauldronics

    Cauldronics DFO Master

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    No trace of a 2nd hit with headphones on, which doesn't mean it's impossible, but I have doubts. I have looked at the trigger with the pad taken apart to change heads and it checks out ok.
     
  7. TDM

    TDM Yapping Internet Mutt

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    Cauldronics,

    The head trigger of a 2Box pad is an edge-mounted piezo. By edge-mounted, I mean the piezo is mounted under and at the edge of the head, off to one side of the drum, rather than being mounted under and at the center of the head (as is the case with Roland-style pads). On the 2Box pad, under the head and between the head and piezo is a foam column. Over time, the foam ages and when it does, you will not get smooth triggering response. This same issue occurs with any pad that uses foam columns to transfer vibrations from the head to the piezo.

    Check the condition of the foam column. If the foam feels a bit dry or if the foam is breaking down in any way, you need to replace that column. Getting this part from 2Box could take a while, but you can probably make a new foam column yourself. This may or may not be the cause of the problem you are experiencing, but I'd certainly check it. Also, using the existing foam column, try removing, rotating, and re-seating the head, to see if this helps even out the response.

    Final thought, with mesh head pads, you need a reasonable degree of tension on the head. If the tension is low as one might tune a low-pitched tom, the triggering response will not be even and may produce hot, non-linear response as you've described. Therefore, make sure you have at least medium tension all the way around the head. Don't over crank the head, but going a little tighter is typically better than going looser.

    2box001.jpg

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  8. Cauldronics

    Cauldronics DFO Master

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    So, I have gone through the parts and nothing looks out of place, worn down or eroded. The foam is indistinguishable from new and the wires are attached solidly, nothing hanging or flapping loose.

    I have tried different tensions on the mesh head, never getting it very tight at all once the feel was good. The point mentioned by dje31 seems to explain the issue - that 2box built the pad to work best with a 2box module - a horrible idea, IMO.

    Unless you're using the same pad with a non 2box module and getting a useful velocity/gain range, I think it's just the pad. Haven't heard anything from the DFO member who gave me this pad for free, but I haven't asked. Since it was free, I'm not that interested in spending a lot more of my time chasing geese.

    I'll still try a thin piece of fabric or foam, over the piezo to see if that dampens the trigger in a predictable, useful way.
     
  9. TDM

    TDM Yapping Internet Mutt

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    Cauldronics,

    Another thought. The piezo transducer is a two dollar part. It could be that the piezo is shot. I don't really buy the "2Box designed these pads for their own module" argument because lots of other pads (Roland, Yamaha, etc.) work fine on the 2Box module. Granted, you won't get full multi-zone compatibility with third part pads on the 2Box module, but the basic peizo head triggering always works fine. For a free pad, I agree you probably don't want to spend a lot more time and money on it. However, if you have access to another piezo transducer, I'd swap that in and see what happens.
     
  10. Tuckerboy

    Tuckerboy Well-Known Member

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    Cauldronics,

    When I was using the 2Box pads along with the 2Box module and other A2E triggers (Pintech & 2Box external triggers), I always had to adjust the other triggers for gain and threshold to get them equal with the 2Box pads as they never matched the 2Box pads settings. I'm not very knowledgeable with e-kits but I'll throw some things out there and try to get you pointed in the right direction.

    Have you tried to use another input rather than the one you're currently using with the 2Box pad on your module just to see if there's a difference in tom versus cymbal channels on your module? Are you using a Y -splitter on that specific input channel? Connections can vary between different brand modules, see attachment, and sometimes an input jack can have an intentional short from the ring to ground so a TRS cable could still behave like a TR cable.

    If you haven't already, I would post your question on the 2Box forum and get hold of username Jman, I believe he could answer your questions and get you taken care of.
     

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  11. Cauldronics

    Cauldronics DFO Master

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    As the provider of the free pad, I appreciate your chiming in. You didn't have to.

    I'm not sure that I checked the pad using another trigger input. The DTX-502 doesn't appear to differentiate between inputs in terms of gain and threshold (etc) settings (except probably for the hi-hat), but that doesn't mean they're all the same. I don't know for sure.

    I would've checked all this out and given a reply based on testing, but the e-kit is now shelved. I have a gig coming up soon and I switched back to the acoustic kit.

    There was no Y cable involved and I used only a mono TS cable. Honestly, I sort of approached this like "a pad is a pad" but there could be more than I was aware of when it comes to using the 2Box pad properly. Maybe it needs a TRS cable?

    Thanks for the lead to J-Man. I'll run this by him.
     

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