Dave plays Buddy

Discussion in 'General' started by paul, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. paul

    paul Well-Known Member

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    In all our discussions pro and con about Mr. Weckl, I rarely hear mention of his playing in big bands. Being a devotee of that genre myself I think this is a major oversight. Here is a small correction.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2018 at 10:03 PM
  2. paul

    paul Well-Known Member

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    Also note that he's not reading. He KNOWS the charts.
     
  3. NYFrank

    NYFrank New Member

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    He's a gifted player. He's one of those types of players that I almost don't like watching - because I will never be able to approach that level of play.
     
  4. zenghost

    zenghost Well-Known Member

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    Dave's musicality and his relaxed and fluid movement are spectacular - very inspiring.
     
  5. RickP

    RickP Dan RH Jr.

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    Thanks for posting that Paul, I quite enjoyed that. I have been a Weckl fan for a long time and never really understood the disdain some drummers have for him.
    I have heard he has a moody personality, maybe that is it, but his mastery of the drum set is undeniable IMHO.
     
  6. Paradiddle

    Paradiddle New Member

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    One thing I've never liked about Dave/Vinnie/Gadd playing big band is their ride cymbal pulse is too "unclear" for me. I much prefer Jeff Hamilton, Mel Lewis, Sonny Payne, or Buddy. A super nice swing pulse that doesn't add a bunch of filler notes. I must prefer the "older" swing pattern having grown up listening to that stuff.

    This is very good playing however. Dave also played with Buddy's band on the first Buddy Rich Memorial Scholarship gig at the Wiltern. I was there.
     
  7. Paradiddle

    Paradiddle New Member

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    Listen to Buddy's relentless ride pulse and ALWAYS playing the two and four on the "sock cymbal"

    My dad's big band always played this chart great.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2018 at 10:03 PM
  8. jaymandude

    jaymandude Well-Known Member

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    by unclear do you mean broken/untraditional as opposed to ding ding ga ding ding ga ding ding ga ding ding ga ding ding ga ding ding ga ding ding ga ding ding ga ding ?
     
  9. Paradiddle

    Paradiddle New Member

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    Basically yes. For bebop the "Tony" pattern works great as there is typically less noise happening (due to a smaller band). For Big Band I prefer a more clear and driving pulse. I also feel that Dave really doesn't swing that well. He's an amazing player, but I personally do not like (and have never liked) his pulse.

    Again - I'm a Mel Lewis, Buddy, Jeff Hamilton, Irv Cotler type of guy when it comes to big band.
     
  10. jaymandude

    jaymandude Well-Known Member

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    Basically yes. For bebop the "Tony" pattern works great as there is typically less noise happening (due to a smaller band). For Big Band I prefer a more clear and driving pulse. I also feel that Dave really doesn't swing that well. He's an amazing player, but I personally do not like (and have never liked) his pulse.

    Again - I'm a Mel Lewis, Buddy, Jeff Hamilton, Irv Cotler type of guy when it comes to big band.



    gotcha. I have my own opinions, which i am choosing to share less frequently
     
  11. jcameron

    jcameron Drumming Since '85

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    Daves a first class player and this is a solid, solid performance but Buddy really kicked those charts in the ass. Dave just gives them a massage here.
     
  12. Paradiddle

    Paradiddle New Member

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    Basically yes. For bebop the "Tony" pattern works great as there is typically less noise happening (due to a smaller band). For Big Band I prefer a more clear and driving pulse. I also feel that Dave really doesn't swing that well. He's an amazing player, but I personally do not like (and have never liked) his pulse.

    Again - I'm a Mel Lewis, Buddy, Jeff Hamilton, Irv Cotler type of guy when it comes to big band.



    gotcha. I have my own opinions, which i am choosing to share less frequently




    I understand and I'm not attacking Dave as a player. His work with the original Electrik Band is some of my favorite jazz fusion playing of all time.
     
  13. studrum

    studrum Well-Known Member

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    Basically yes. For bebop the "Tony" pattern works great as there is typically less noise happening (due to a smaller band). For Big Band I prefer a more clear and driving pulse. I also feel that Dave really doesn't swing that well. He's an amazing player, but I personally do not like (and have never liked) his pulse.

    Again - I'm a Mel Lewis, Buddy, Jeff Hamilton, Irv Cotler type of guy when it comes to big band.


    I agree with this. I think it's because he spent too much time in straight 8th note land in the 80's and 90's, where precision become THE musical goal - not good. Hey, those were the evolving trends and he was of his time. He was and is an amazing drummer. There was some lore in the 90's that some folks had checked recordings and playing of great jazz drummers of the day versus a metronome. The king? Weckl. The least metronomic was Elvin Jones. You can guess which drummer I prefer. But they really are like apples and oranges; it all depends what you want.

    For fine big band drumming, I'll add Terry Clarke.
     

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