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Discussion in 'General' started by Pocketplayer, May 16, 2018.
Good interview, I think he's just being honest. Throughout his life he was never one to be greedy. Speaks his mind.
Let me answer the question on Bonham for Baker; "Bonham was a great drummer, of course, we just came at the game from two different angles, for me everything I did was rooted in Jazz and had to swing. In my opinion Bonham did not swing....but then again, neither did someone like Neil Peart who will go down in history as one of the greats."
Rating Bonham as a 4 on a 10 scale and disparaging Moon soiled the whole interview. Rating Charlie Watts superior to both is clearly laughable. Watts would likely blush at such an assertion.
Typical Jazz snobbery. Same old stuff.
However, there is some truth beneath what he says.
Personally I never got the hub-bub surrounding Baker.... He just doesn't "do" anything for me and there are too many of his contemporaries I would rather listen to. Never attracted to his style or found his playing particularly interesting. Not saying he couldn't play, or didn't leave his mark though. Because of this I never cared what he had to say about other drummers or himself honestly. What I have heard of his interviews he comes across as a jerk and life is too short to spend time listening to that kind of person-honest or not! Lol.
But I never was really a fan of Clapton, Cream, or any other projects he was involved with so take that for what it's worth.
Bonham not swing?? Lesson to all the kiddos out there.... Put down the drugs!
A great talent but a real bummer of an individual.
Actually if you ask Keith Richards, hell also rate Charlie above Bonham. Personally I love Bonhams playing, and to say he doesnt swing I dont agree with. But - some artists just werent a fan of that super heavy feel...
I would be great to hear some of the real jazz greats take on baker, I think he'd not like it one bit.
I just listened to the interview and I personally think he is nuts. I actually loved his playing in Cream much in the same way I love Ringo in the Beatles and Charlie in the Stones. I just can't for the life of me understand why he rates himself so much higher than all of his peers. I'm certainly not hearing him swing better than any of the other guys. He really low assesment of Bonham makes me wonder if he actually ever really listened to him. Sometimes I think JHB gets a little bit of crap as he can be lumped in with a lot of the crashers and bashers. IMO Bonham had the PERFECT touch and feel and had total control over his sound and dynamics. I also think if JHB were to sit in with a jazz band it would have sounded great.
I get what he is saying about Neil Peart though. I love Neil in RUSH and have been a RUSH fan for years. I just don't think Neil has a great swing. That certainly does not take anything away from what he contributed to RUSH though.
Well he loves himself, that is for certain.
It would be interesting to try to swing Tom Sawyer on the drums
He is one of the most difficult people ever to get along with.. His ability and musicality totally blows me away..as a person he is very aggressive and puts people down.. Sometimes saying nothing says more. But don't like hearing others put down..
Baker is damaged goods . Anyone who tries to take issue with his opinions is sicker than him .
This might be one of the BEST documentaries ever...seriously well done!
It will give some depth to Ginger...again, hard not to share my opinion but
do not want to SPOILER anything.
Will say early development is much stronger than many people (men) will admit to
mainly because most lack that awareness of self. Just my opinion...and those who
come from the "get over it" (thank you Mr Henley) school would disagree.
There is an energy Ginger had to NOT stay put...to sabotage stability that had little
to do with external events...it was his internal energy!
I love Ginger. I saw that film - the guy looked crazy during the Cream days and he is now old and has got some loose screws. I will check out the interview later. His Cream stuff is awesome - but behind Clapton and Bruce, how could it not be???
Bonham may not have jazz roots per se, but had tremendous feel for the music. From Moby Dick, to Black Dog to Comm. Breakdown, to Achilles, to Fool in the Rain, he started many genres before they were genres. And look at Stairway - that song has NO drums, then eases into it, and by the end, he is full speed and it's heavy. Some of the fills are so original and out there, and with the time sigs, to this day, I still have a hard time playing it. And if you listen to the early 60's jazz players, there are many guys (Morello, Mouzon, Elvin, etc.) who had killer jazz solos which Bonzo and countless others copped from. So although not "trained" in jazz, you can hear influences with his own touch, which is the sign of a true musician.
I saw Ginger's jazz quartet a few years ago..... tell you what, that dude CAN'T SWING WORTH A DAMN in my book.
I had his Coming Home CD decade or more again, and I never liked it either.....
but, I do LOVE his playing in Cream, Airforce, Masters of Reality ( his playing on that CD is Fantastic....grooving...but not swinging) and one of my fav , his "ginger baker's African force"
Listening to his pre-Cream work from the Graham Bond Organisation will provide a good example of his early jazz stuff and really swings. Try listening to the Solid Bond album. I believe I found it on Spotify, since my vinyl copy was trashed long ago.
His personality sucks, yeah, but I sure loved his playing in Cream.
Smart insight here^^^
I just can't for the life of me understand why he rates himself so much higher than all of his peers.
Insecurity...let's not over-complicate this. He is a man holding onto whatever he can...and in his mind, you
?have to diminish others to propel your own virtue...only a man holding on for dear life would say this.
His heroes were;
Those were the standard for him...as an old man he hooked onto his childhood heroes. This could have been
said in 1968...he would have said the same. This is NOT a man who stays current and has grown in life.
All drummers in his mind are seen through this lens of the fabulous four.
?His story to me, seems like one of deep abandonment by his father who died in the war--a man who never grieved
properly and held onto this pain his entire life! That is the life lesson we can learn from Mr Baker. When you do not
grieve propery, you act like Giner did towards his own son Kofi. He always awanted a son, and when he got one,
he rejected him. That is pain controlling your life!
How many other "drummers" never played on a hit record who live the same...like they are a shadow of the past,
clinging desperately to some achievement? This is much more common than many might admit!