Paiste Consistency

Discussion in 'Cymbal Talk' started by CSR, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. CSR

    CSR Member since May 2000

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    i have a new Paiste that has a sound, to my ears, is very unlike others of the same model online. Several members have mentioned the consistency of Paiste cymbals within a model. Is this accurate? In other words, others of the same model will sound very similar. Is this your experience?

    Insights much appreciated.
     
  2. Pimp-a-diddle

    Pimp-a-diddle Very well Known Member

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    It's been my experience that a cymbal of the same size and model should be consistent in tone and resonance to within 5% difference.
     
  3. bubo

    bubo Well-Known Member

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    Need to know what series this very cymbal is.
    For the consistensy this goes for 2002s, Signatures, Alphas, PST-whatevers from the same era.
    E.g. you cannot compare a 2002 from the 70s to 80s to newer ones.
    Older series mainly the B20 range like Sound Creations had greater variances from cymbal to cymbal -i own quite alot of them, even 2-3 of the same model and can confirm there are variations (NOT comparing older 70s with 80s New Dimensions here).
    Maybe some of the "new" B20 stuff like traditionals (do they make them still?) also could have greater variances
    because of the production process?

    Also i would never make a decision of buying an instrument from what is presented online, because you never know the circumstances the recording was done, not even do you know the sticks used which is, apart from the players dynamics, a very important influence for the sound, especially on a ride or hi-hat cymbal.
     
  4. zenstat

    zenstat Senior Cymbal Nerd

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    We've been here before. There is no objective measure of "consistency" in use. So it is quite possible that one person's "sounds similar" is another person's "sounds different". How would we know? :dontknow:

    I'd agree with about 5% in terms of weight (because I've done the analysis for a few thousand cymbals) but as I mentioned above I have no scale on which to measure consistency of tone or resonance.

    The Traditionals (now called Signature Traditionals) are B15 not B20. Always have been. And I'm not sure what you mean by "new". Traditionals have been around since 1996. Is "new" a cymbal from before the 1990s for you?

    I classify into 3 production eras. The distinction between Early and Late is based on the year (from serial numbers) plus the shift from an embossed (pressed in die stamp) Sound Creation versus ink Sound Creation and hollow font model ink vs solid font.

    Early 78-81
    Late 81-91
    New Dims 84-92

    Yes there are sonic variations between individual cymbals and between production eras (all for the same model). The question is about the level of variation within versus between cymbals of the same model and production era and how this is perceived by a number of listeners. When you start looking at measures like price and weight there is lots of variation and overlap between cymbals which people believe are quite different. This was looking at the Formula 602 Dark Rides (including the ones we call Transitional) versus the Sound Creation ones.

    22-dr-price-by-grams.png


    For me, the take home point is that you will probably need more than 2-3 examples of a particular cymbal to start to get a handle on variation. Plus we need agreed procedures for measuring sonic properties. Otherwise all we get is a variety of opinions, sometimes strongly held.

     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
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  5. DrumKeys

    DrumKeys Very well Known Member

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    I would imagine that 2002's would be much more consistent than say the Masters line given the amount of hammering. Just my assumption.
     
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  6. Bri6366

    Bri6366 Very well Known Member

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    What model cymbal is it?
     
  7. CSR

    CSR Member since May 2000

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    It’s a new Paiste Masters swish that sounds, to my ear, much brasher and less mellow than examples I hear online. I’ve tried both wood and nylon-tip 5a sticks. I bought it to use as a swish ride in a big band setting rather than a crash.

    Member RickP thought a recording of it sounded more metallic and harsh that either online or inperson versions he’s heard.

    Zen-stat was kind enough to listen to an amateur recording of it, and although he admittedly has little research into swish or China cymbals, thought it might be “a bit harsh.”

    I contacted Heather Stine to see if she had any suggestions. She thought the recording sounded “hollow”, but didn’t think she could do anything to help.

    I’ve appreciated all of their kind responses and insights.

    I bought it with great hopes. Now, I’m wondering if my ears are betraying me or the cymbal is outside the more typical Paiste Masters model. It could be my ears + poor iPhone microphone. Maybe the cymbal is just not for me.

    I’ve had it, but not used it other than testing, for a couple of months, probably too long to return or exchange it. Pause thinks it sounds pretty typical for an effects cymbal.

    Any suggestions or hints would be greatly appreciated.
     
  8. lrod1707

    lrod1707 Very well Known Member

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    In my experience with Paiste, they always sound the same. I guess their can always be a dud though. But comparing an online sound to the sound in front of you I think is never exact with any cymbal from any cymbal maker. At least that has been my experience. I use the online sound to get an idea but my ears will always hear something slightly off when I hear it live.
     
  9. Bri6366

    Bri6366 Very well Known Member

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    By virtue of being Turkish bronze with the most hand hammering of any Paiste line, the Masters are going to have more variation from cymbal to cymbal than any other line.
     
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