“Holy Grail Prototype” eBay Alert (Scam)

drumtimejohn

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Are you a “serious collector”? Then you should “know” about this drum. In good faith I informed the seller that the drum is a miss and I was thanked for looking. In some ways I’m surprised about the high bidding on this rebadged import B/W shell with imperial lugs.

 
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TheElectricCompany

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We were discussing that on Facebook. According to Bun, Ludwig sent out steel snares with the earliest stainless kits, so it's conceivable there's steel "Supras" out there. They would have featured a bead and Imperials and the only obvious physical differences would be the weight and magnetism. This eBay snare, however, is NOT one of those.
 

Mcjnic

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How does a badge get that beat up and off center and yet the metal surrounding the badge looks quite nice? :stop:
 

Rich K.

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We were discussing that on Facebook. According to Bun, Ludwig sent out steel snares with the earliest stainless kits, so it's conceivable there's steel "Supras" out there. They would have featured a bead and Imperials and the only obvious physical differences would be the weight and magnetism. This eBay snare, however, is NOT one of those.
Also, wouldn't that butt NOT have existed when that badge was around??
 

RogersLudwig

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Were the original steel shell snares seamless? Are the steel shell bass drums and toms seamless or do they have a welded seam? I know nothing about Ludwig steel drums and I am trying to figure out how you guys picked up on this being a fake.
 

Mcjnic

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Were the original steel shell snares seamless? Are the steel shell bass drums and toms seamless or do they have a welded seam? I know nothing about Ludwig steel drums and I am trying to figure out how you guys picked up on this being a fake.

There are quite a few variables at play.

Without having to know anything about Ludwig drums, there are some simple clues that scream.

I gave one that should be very easy to see.
The badge has quite a bit of scrapes and wear. And yet, the area around it does not show damage.
It would be difficult to only damage the badge to that level and not present any scrapes or gouges on the shell in that area.
 
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JazzDrumGuy

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Both the silver face throw and butt plate are newer than a B/O badge, right? And yes, the badge is pretty messed up considering the shell. Does the grommet look big, too? It reeks like a bologna sandwich.......
 

cworrick

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OK.

Just a couple of points -
Seam and scratched badge aside, How many guys here have upgraded their snare hardware?
Everyone talks about switching out snare throwoffs. That could have been done with the but end as well.
The Lugs possibly could have been switched out as well.
This seller said he got it used from another guy. The previous owner could have made those changes to suit his/her liking for the drum - not realizing it would kill the resale.

Just a thought.
 

idrum4fun

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This "steel-shell" Supra smacks of being completely phony. I have The Ludwig Book and there is mention of steel-shell Supras that others remember being made. Still, wouldn't it have also been a spun and seamless shell? The badge and grommet look altered. The P85 and P33 butt are not correct for the shell. I'm just amazed that so many bidders can be so easily deceived!

-Mark
 

drumtimejohn

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Someone paid around $450 shipped and are likely going to be pissed if/when they discover the drum is modified. I’m glad many of us wrote the seller to expose the drum. I trust these messages will be discovered when a refund is requested.
 
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Carlos McSnurf

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This "steel-shell" Supra smacks of being completely phony. I have The Ludwig Book and there is mention of steel-shell Supras that others remember being made. Still, wouldn't it have also been a spun and seamless shell?
Steel shell LM400 was (acc. To book and George Lawrence) shortly experimented on COB to Ludalloy shell transition period (1962). It may have happened later what Bun E states for stainless steel drums manufacture period. But I think there were just a very low quantity episode. And that Franken-drum does not belongs to them.
 


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