11 inch Paiste 2002 splash

Toast Tee

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Hey all,
My first post here.
Anyway I will introduce myself in the proper area. I have a question for the other Paiste fanatics here.
I've been collecting Paiste cymbals for sometime now. Recently i picked up a set of 2002's (mixed years). Before I picked them up I was told there was a 10 inch splash. To my surprise, it was actually an 11 inch red label.
It's in decent condition, no key hole, but a slight flea bite. Anyway, I can't find an 11 inch 2002 anywhere. Does anyone know anything about this cymbal? How many were made, years produced, etc.....This is not vintage.
Thanks for the help
 

EvEnStEvEn

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Fairly common, I think. I had one I bought new around 1981-'82
Used it for 25 years and sold it here along with all my other red-label 2oo2s.
Mine had a small edge ding too!
 

Toast Tee

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Fairly common, I think. I had one I bought new around 1981-'82
Used it for 25 years and sold it here along with all my other red-label 2oo2s.
Mine had a small edge ding too!
I'm not sure how common they are now. I've been looking online, and can't find any for sale. There's 1 YouTube video from 2013 from a music store. Besides that, I can't find one anywhere. I'm guessing they only made it in the early 80's? I'll have to check the serial # for the year it was made. If I can't find more info, I'll give Paiste a call.
It's a great sounding cymbal!
 

APelletier

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I was lucky enough to find an 11" red label 2002 splash for my Bill Bruford tribute kit, thanks to forum member Spongebob. They are not so common and I'm still seeking an 11" Black label 2002 splash, which are an even tougher find, I'm experiencing. Lovely little cymbal... Id hang on to it, as they are discontinued. I believe Paiste still makes an 11" splash in another line.
 
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APelletier

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I believe they made an 11" splash for the Signature, Traditional, Innovations, Dimensions and Rude lines as well. I believe all are discontinued. The 11" splashes were also offered back in the day in the 2002 black label line in the 70s as well as the 602 line.
 
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CaptainCrunch

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Where Black is the color, where None is the number
I had an 11" Black Label 2002 with some oval-ing of the mounting hole. Threw up a bunch of stuff when I was squeezed financially a few years back, got crappy money for everything. I don't think I cleared 60 bucks for the splash.

That's actually why I don't sell stuff when I need money anymore, only when I want money. Big difference.
 

Toast Tee

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That's pretty cool then. I did see a vid of the black label as well.
I'm just wondering what year, or years they made the red label, and how many?
I hate to be ''that guy", but I picked up a bunch of nice Paistes because they needed $. I figure someone was going to get a deal, so why not me?
Do you know if Bill got the cymbal custom, since I'm sure his deal with Paiste is as good as anyone?
I may put it out there for bid, as I'm kind of curious what it's worth.
I seriously can't find the 11 inch for sale anywhere online
 

APelletier

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The Black Label 2002's were made from '71 - 80. That's (roughly) when red label 2002s took over and have been in production since. Camps will say - same cymbals (black/red) have the same sound, others say the black labels have better sound/hammering. It's all subjective. I want to round out my cymbal set to match exactly what Bruford was using in 1977-78 which would be Black Label 2002's and 602's. To be exact - two 16" 602 thin crashes, a 20" 602 medium ride with 8 rivets, 15" 2002 Black Label Sound Edge Hats, a 20" 2002 black label china and an 11" 2002 black label splash. I have all of the above except for the Black label splash and china. Right now I'm using a red label 11" splash and a 20" 602 china. Both are beautiful cymbals, however, the 602 china is so mellow and sweet! It has none of the raspy trashiness that you can hear on the UK recordings. The splash is a non-issue because there's not much variance in splashes. If I never find an 11" 2002 black label splash, it would be of no consequence, as I'm totally happy to have found the one I have! Bruford's 11" 2002 black label splash was no custom job and I think it was available throughout the longevity of the 2002 black label line up. Couldn't tell you when the 11" red label 2002 splash was discontinued. Does your's have a ser.#??? Mine does NOT... our forum guru on Paiste, Steve Black, would be interested in that info as he's recompiling paiste data throughout the years. I don't think Bruford ever endorsed or had a deal per say with Paiste. He just used what sounded good to his ear. You should expect to get anywhere from 90-140 for that cymbal depending on how flea-bit that edge is. Nope they don't come up very often, that's why I say use it, enjoy it and keep it!

IMG_20181022_164512318.jpg
IMG_20181022_164535282.jpg
 
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Toast Tee

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I like that kit!
What is your snare of choice?
As for Paiste, I fell in love as a kid when my Grandmother bought me the sound edge sig's.
I had to stop playing for a while, and got rid of my gear.
I started playing again around 2003. I've gone a bit over the top buying cymbals. I prefer buying new, as the 1st, and only cymbal I ever cracked was bought used (18 inch 2002) I picked it up in the eve, and guess I missed a flea bite?
Anyway, yeah, I have a couple pre serial vintage 18 inch 602's. Thoes are amazing cymbals. Super versatile. 1 is in absolutely perfect condition. Not s flea bite, or any keyhole whatsoever.
I know it's unlikely I'll ever get to use all my cymbals in gigging situation, but for some reason I think Paistes just sound so much better than any other brand (at least to my ears)
For playing, I'll use a combo of 2002's, and Sigs. There are still a couple cymbals I'd like to have but I really can't justify buying more.
Anyway I really like the sound of that 11 inch along with the 8 inch sig.
As for the 11 inch red label. I asked my buddy who works at a music store if I could order 1. He couldn't find it anywhere, so I'm pretty certain they don't make them anymore, unless you can get Paiste to make something custom.
I still haven't checked the serial # regarding what year it's from.
I'll get that info a bit later
 

APelletier

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I like that kit!
What is your snare of choice?
Same as Bruford - a 6.5 x 14 Ludwig Supersensitive. Mine is a pointy B/O badge from 1971. Yes, the Paiste 11" splash in all lines are discontinued for certain. I believe the one I see pop up most frequently are the Signature series for some reason. You just have to bide your time and they will pop up... you gotta be quick though. The only other available modern 11" splashes I see out there are Sabian AAX -Xplosion and SR-2, Zildjian K Custom, and Wuhan. You can also find vintage UFIP 11" splashes pretty readily. Zildjian made an 11" Oriental Trash splash at one time as well. Don't know if they're still making those.
 
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Toast Tee

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Same as Bruford - a 6.5 x 14 Ludwig Supersensitive. Mine is a pointy badge B/O badge from 1971. Yes, the Paiste 11" splash in all lines are discontinued for certain. I believe the one I see pop up most frequently are the Signature series for some reason. You just have to bide your time and they will pop up... you gotta be quick though. The only other available modern 11" splashes I see out there are Sabian AAX -Xplosion and SR-2, Zildjian K Custom, and Wuhan. You can also find vintage UFIP 11" splashes pretty readily. Zildjian made an 11" Oriental Trash splash at one time as well. Don't know if they're still making those.
Good to know!
I think Bill in an amazing drummer. It's cool having super talented friends that have made it.
I use the 14x61/2 Supraphonic, as my main snare. Love that thing. It's great for just about any style.
Is that a 26 bass, 14 mount, and 16 floor?
 

APelletier

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All sizes, drums and cymbals are as closely matched to what Bruford was using on the UK recordings and tour of 1977 - 1978. My drums are 6 ply Ludwig Natural Maple Thermogloss from 1977. I used a 12" Ludwig tom in lieu of the 12" Hayman tom that Bruford utilized.
Bruford's 77-78 setup included:
  • 14″x 6½” Ludwig Supersensitive chrome plated snare drum
  • 14″ and 18″ Roto Toms
  • 12” x 8” Hayman Tom Tom
  • 16″ x 16″ Ludwig Floor Tom
  • 22″ x 14″ Ludwig Bass Drum
  • 15″ Sound Edge hi-hats, 2002
  • (2)16″ thin crashes, 602
  • 11” splash atop the crash, 2002
  • 20″ Medium Ride with sizzles, 602
  • 20” China, 2002
  • Drumheads: Pinstripe on rototoms.
post-9695-0-34040400-1535759089 10.25.23 PM.jpg
 

Toast Tee

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Nice.
I like larger toms too. I've only played on the oversized roto toms once as a kid. They do sound really good
Are the 602's vintage (pre serial?)
The 18's I've got have that Paiste tone, very light..1 is 1335 grams, the other is 1342. I wouldn't consider them crashes, or rides. So versatile.
I use an 18 Full Sig, 8, 10 sig splashes, I'll rotate my hat's from Heavy sigs, to 2002's, 20 inch 2002, and 24 inch 2002 (My favorite ride I've got, and it's not even close)
I will rotate my 2002 20, to a 19 Sig Dark Energy Sig.
I think I said I was done buying cymbals, but just found a 1976 20 inch crash in mint condition, at a real good price. (So I think I'll pick it up)
I've become a cymbal herder. I guess there are worse things to be hooked on
 

APelletier

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Nice.
Are the 602's vintage (pre serial?)
The 20" 602 ride with rivets is a vintage pre-serial Medium (pre-1971) that I bought from another DFO member. The 16" 602 thin crashes are modern reissues. I found both on Reverb as slightly used floor models. Got both for a song... almost a 2 for 1 deal! You can also find great deals on the cymbals for sale section of this site. Just realized you're a brand new member - Welcome aboard!
 
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Toast Tee

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The 20" 602 ride with rivets is a vintage pre-serial Medium (pre-1971) that I bought from another DFO member. The 16" 602 thin crashes are modern reissues. I found both on Reverb as slightly used floor models. Got both for a song... almost a 2 for 1 deal! You can also find great deals on the cymbals for sale section of this site. Just realized you're a brand new member - Welcome aboard!
Thank you. I was so eager to ask about the 11 inch, I didn't properly introduce myself. I'm guessing there's an intro section. I haven't explored the site at all.
I'm glad I'm here. So far, there seems to be a wealth of knowledge
 

zenstat

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Mine does NOT... our forum guru on Paiste, Steve Black, would be interested in that info as he's recompiling paiste data throughout the years.
Hey, I resemble that remark. But I'm just a Senior Cymbal Nerd not a Guru. Senior because I'm retired, Nerd because I pay attention to details and I'm a numbers guy. Previously known as zenstat until a recent forum change wiped out screen user names. But I answer to both.

Welcome to the madhouse Toast Tee. I would indeed be interested in the serial info on your 11" splash. Same for your 20" black label 2002 you reported elsewhere. In fact, I'm interested in all weights and serials (or info that it is pre serial number) I can get. I started out as a 602/Sound Creation specialist, but I've broadened out my research interests to help pick up the slack after the demise of the Paiste Only Wiki.

I'm still working on the question of whether a unified theory of Paiste serial numbers (across all lines) works. I suspect it will work. Since the demise of the Paiste Only Wiki I've seen a fair few people ignoring the words above the serial number and getting the wrong decade. The detail of how those words are constructed is basically the first 3 digits of the production year for 6 digit serial numbers. The first digit of the 6 digit number gives just the final digit of the year. In order to get the correct decade you need to pay attention to the words above the digits.

  • blank above a serial number means 1972 to 1982
  • PAISTE 2002 means 1982 to 1985
  • PAISTE means 1985 - 1991
  • pAisTe means 1991 - 1997
  • once you get to 8 digit serial numbers the first two digits give the year starting 1998 up to laser serial numbers on the underside
  • I'm not yet sure when the serial numbers moved to the underside and are executed by laser

Note: I've given PAISTE 2002 as the example, but other lines will appear instead of 2002. Like 602.

Examples:

1981 (NOT 1971 because there are no 1971 serial numbers)

blank-164285.png


1983

PAISTE-2002-313754.png


1991

PAISTE-118929.png


1997 (this is on my Trad Medium Light bottom hat)

pAisTe-723629.png


2006

pAisTe-06023403.png


If anybody has counterexamples to this unified theory, do let me know. I'm still working out the boundaries when there are overlaps in the ending years of one style (PAISTE 2002 as 1995 and PAISTE as 1995) to see if there are any ambiguities, but so far so good.


For historical completeness, what the P-O site had once upon a time was:

Paiste serial numbers were first applied in about 1973. Prior to this there was no accurate means of determining the age of a Paiste other than to identify the years of production for the series or model when known. These cymbals are referred to as "Pre-Serial" cymbals. It should also be noted that it is not uncommon for serial numbers to be difficult to read due to hammering and lathing. In these cases, the era of the cymbal can usually be identified, but the exact year may not be determinated.
*The original 1970's style involved no additional lettering with the serial number.
Therefore, "3XXXXX" would be from 1973.
*In the 1980s, "PAISTE" was stamped above the serial number, and in some cases, the series or line name might be stamped instead.
Therefore "PAISTE 6XXXXX" would be from 1986
*In the 1990s, the company name was changed to the 'high/low' style" "pAisTe" Therefore "pAisTe 2XXXXX" would be from 1992.
*Around 1994, Paiste started using eight digit serial numbers. In these cases, the first two digits represent the year of production. This method is still in use today. Therefore "96XXXXXX" would be from 1996
But since that was written serial numbers have been pinned down to the second half of 1972, and there are a few other amendments required to bring it up to the current state of knowledge.
 
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Toast Tee

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Steve....I thought I loved Paiste cymbals.
WOW!
I'll take some pics of some various, vintage, and some that maybe harder to find.
"I'm glad I met that guy"
This place is awesome. I'm glad I finally joined a drummers forum. Everyone has been super cool!
 

Toast Tee

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Ok, I kind of figured out the first number thing, but wasn't sure it applied to all years.
Is there a way to tell if the 1st digital is from a certain decade? Or do you follow the way Paiste is written, as you wrote in the 1st post?
I've still been searching, and I really can't find a single 11 inch red label splash for sale anywhere. I guess that's a good thing.
I've read some people say they still make em (my buddy at the music store couldn't find it anywhere on the PC) I'm guessing they made it a couple years tops in the 80's?
Unless I find something very rare, I think my Paiste collection is pretty much complete, although I would like some 12 inch Sigs....Love Coplands hats sound.
I've got 3 kits, and an electric. I'll admit, I thought the DW craze was a bunch of hype, and good choices of players that endorse them, but I played on a Collector's series, and I really liked how it sounded.
Idk, I would like to get my hands on some vintage Ludwig's (26, 14, 16, 18) Yes, Bonham fan...He's the reason I picked up sticks.
 

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