13” vs 14” HATS, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING THE SAME

CC Cirillo

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Tiptoeing around some G.A.S. here….

For those of you using 13” hi hats: How do 13s compare to 14” hats of the same brand and series?

I’m very familiar with 14” New Beats (modern, old and redesigned), as well as 14” K Custom Darks, but what I don’t know is the variance an inch smaller is going to do. Certainly, they’d be “faster.” I imagine they’d be higher pitched and perhaps probably more articulate in the “chup”.

But do they jump up in volume? Or is it only what I call a “perceived volume” in that higher notes seem louder, to me at least.

The only 13”s I have ever played were in a bar on another drummer’s kit….
She had some 13” A Customs given to her by Tim Alexander. They were a bit shrilly for me. Because of that one experience I have written off 13s, perhaps unfairly so.

These would not be for jazz or rock, but for singer-oriented soul and funkier stuff on a small kit (18,10,14 with Uptown and Staccato rides).

Brands I adhere to with irrational strong emotion are Zildjian and Sabian. Don’t know if there is anything from Sabian which is not Up In Your Face.

I value your input.
 

Latdrummer

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The only 13”s I have ever played were in a bar on another drummer’s kit….
She had some 13” A Customs given to her by Tim Alexander. They were a bit shrilly for me. Because of that one experience I have written off 13s, perhaps unfairly so.
I’m in the same boat regarding 13” hi-hats, never have listened to one that I liked, except for these 13” Sabian HHX Stage Hats that I used once in a rehearsal room (maybe you want to try them). All other 13” hi-hats that I’ve played or listened to sound exactly as you say: shrill, clangy and loud, without any discernible tone or warmth.
 

Tama CW

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I've had several pairs of 13" Zildjian trans stamp A hi hats pairs. Usually in the paper thin to medium thin range (400's to 600's). They are never shrill.
The pair I'm currently playing are 525/595. They play a lot like 14's. But on this particular pair the foot chup is pretty sharp. And I think I they would be fine for jazz and softer rock.
It's not hard to find Zildjian 13 hat pairs all the way from the 400's up to the 900's though I don't think I would like them much past 750 gm. My nephew plays 13" Zildjian Mastersounds and to me a bit too high in pitch. But they cut like crazy.

I think the 13's and 14's play pretty close to each other if you take into account the 20% weight differential.
 

Franklin Nigel Stein

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I’m in the same boat regarding 13” hi-hats, never have listened to one that I liked, except for these 13” Sabian HHX Stage Hats that I used once in a rehearsal room (maybe you want to try them). All other 13” hi-hats that I’ve played or listened to sound exactly as you say: shrill, clangy and loud, without any discernible tone or warmth.
Totally agree with you. I’ve tried my best to love 13s, I really have. I’m even motivated by my travel light mantra. Still, I buy them/use them/sell them every time.

edit - I’ve been thinking about some early 13in New Beats for years now (my 13s were always matched pairs). Sigh. That’s a good course of action even if you hate them, as you can get out from under them for what they cost you.
 
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Franklin Nigel Stein

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. . .But do they jump up in volume? Or is it only what I call a “perceived volume” in that higher notes seem louder, to me at least. . .
I’m betting that if you put a decibel meter next to them the 14s would come out on top but your brain wouldn’t think so due to all the increased overtones the larger cymbals produce. I think it’s because 13s put out a narrower band of higher frequencies that it just SEEMS to be louder.
 
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Esotericdrums

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I have played 14” K mastersounds the last 5 years. Just recently paired two 13 old K new stamp orphans together 718/934g and have been using those. Like you would expect they are dark, quicker, not as much slosh when open but I am loving them. They do get lost in one of my bands that plays heavier 2 guitar progressive rock, I’ve recently switched back to the 14 mastersounds for that band. But my jazz/fusion trio I play with the 13s all day. I have fallen in love with them. Antonio Sanchez plays 13s as well. I’d say for blues, soul, jazz, funk a nice pair of 13s could work well
 

hsosdrum

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The only experience I have with 13" hats is a pair of '40s-vintage 13" cymbals that I used as hi-hats starting in late 1976. At the time I bought three 1940s-vintage cymbals that were all very thin and used two of them as hi-hats. (I still have the third one; it weighs 480 g; the ones I used as hats were a similar weight.) They sounded absolutely nothing like the 13" New Beats in the video posted earlier in this thread. They were very light and wispy sounding, and went "chup" when pedaled. Stick patterns were extremely articulate, but without much body behind them. They went with my Vistalite kit when I sold it in 1982.
 

little rock

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I have been playing a set of 13" HH Sabian Light Hats since back in the early 2000s. I have a set of 14" HHX Manhattan hats that are really nice, but they are not my 13s.
 

CC Cirillo

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I have been playing a set of 13" HH Sabian Light Hats since back in the early 2000s. I have a set of 14" HHX Manhattan hats that are really nice, but they are not my 13s.
Little Rock, that’s a pretty long run; how would you describe the Sabian Lights, and what do you use them for?
 

hardbat

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Heck, I use a set of old Italian 12's with the trio I'm in. They're heavy, in the 800g+ range. I brought several pairs of 13s and this set of 12s to a rehearsal and let the other guys choose. They chose the 12s. I used them on our latest CD which got up to #15 on the JazzWeek charts, so they can't be too bad.
 

CC Cirillo

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Heck, I use a set of old Italian 12's with the trio I'm in. They're heavy, in the 800g+ range. I brought several pairs of 13s and this set of 12s to a rehearsal and let the other guys choose. They chose the 12s. I used them on our latest CD which got up to #15 on the JazzWeek charts, so they can't be too bad.
I’m not sure my eye-hand coordination could handle 12s.
 

Franklin Nigel Stein

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The only experience I have with 13" hats is a pair of '40s-vintage 13" cymbals that I used as hi-hats starting in late 1976. At the time I bought three 1940s-vintage cymbals that were all very thin and used two of them as hi-hats. (I still have the third one; it weighs 480 g; the ones I used as hats were a similar weight.) They sounded absolutely nothing like the 13" New Beats in the video posted earlier in this thread. They were very light and wispy sounding, and went "chup" when pedaled. Stick patterns were extremely articulate, but without much body behind them. They went with my Vistalite kit when I sold it in 1982.
I’m playing five cymbals from that trans stamp family tomorrow. (hats are 14s). The lightest cymbal is my 14in crash at 500g

I had a pair of 13in trans hats that were about 425/460 grams but I never used them. I got an auction lot of cymbals and those weren’t my focus. Plus I make it a point never to play collector grade cymbals live. To my mind, it would be nice if some of these things were still around and being enjoyed in 500 years, and I don’t have enough talent not to mess them up.
 
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hsosdrum

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I’m playing five cymbals from that trans stamp family tomorrow. (hats are 14s). The lightest cymbal is my 14in crash at 500g

I had a pair of 13in trans hats that were about 425/460 grams but I never used them. I got an auction lot of cymbals and those weren’t my focus. Plus I make it a point never to play collector grade cymbals live. To my mind, it would be nice if some of these things were still around and being enjoyed in 500 years, and I don’t have enough talent not to mess them up.
If they never get played they aren't being enjoyed, and there's no point to preserving them. Just treat them like any good cymbal: Use them for music that's appropriate to them and don't play them like a gorilla in heat.
 

GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!

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I have a pair of 13" 1950's As weighing about 600/700. Despite my expectations, they aren't shrill or especially high pitched, but very warm and articulate sounding. The chup and bark sound is more satisfying from them than any other hats I've played, and they're quick, responsive and feel easy to play. My only problem with them is that they are a bit quiet and don't quite cut enough when playing unmic'ed in my 2 guitar, keys and bass band. However, for jazz, blues, funk or singer/songwriter type stuff, they're absolutely perfect.
 

Franklin Nigel Stein

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If they never get played they aren't being enjoyed, and there's no point to preserving them. Just treat them like any good cymbal: Use them for music that's appropriate to them and don't play them like a gorilla in heat.
I get it, but the most important part of my statement is "I don’t have enough talent not to mess them up". If I keep them, their holes are gonna get drilled out to 1/2 and then I'm just gonna bang away on them. They should be preserved and played by a pro for generations to come.

I LOVE the sound of jazz age cymbals and play them every week, but I always sell the mint/near mint examples to players better equipped at bringing them to a wider audience than I. Spotless? Label? Signature? Gonna get sold for sure!

I'll dig up some pics from a year or two ago.

edit - I'm pretty sure these two pics are of the same hi-hat. I sold the pair to a friend back East who's worth his weight in trans stamps. My best guess was that they were a pair of hats that had never been used. The other one wasn't as ornate as this one. I got a new computer and most of my old pics are now lost to time and space.


13-1.jpg
13-2.jpg
 
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JDA

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but what I don’t know is the variance an inch smaller is going to do.
oh it's huge.
the coolest pair ever I had. were K/ over Custom K
That's a k top over an early thick 13 unlathed with 4 edge notches cut out K bottom.
10 miles better than the K/Z 13 popular at the time.
K/K custom bottom w/ four notch outs
bottom:


forget it

you'll never see them in 2 lifetimes maybe in 1.75 lifecycles

with 14s there's no fear of a 'swing and a miss'. so Safety first


don't look you'll never find them.
I mean it. You'll end up in the dark side of the road out of air gas and water, empty booze bottles filled backseat and trunk.
Bad life.
 
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drumsforme

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Love those 13" Hats!- Have a pair of Bosphorus Antique Series 13'" and Zildjian Armand Series 13" and
13" Zildjian KZ Hats and 13" New Beats from the 70's.....Play all of these - Like 'em- Short and Sweet!
 


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