1960s Gretsch Round Badge Drums without Silver Sealer Interior Paint

KCDrumDad

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I am doing a study about 1960s Round Badge Gretsch drums which lack the usual Gretsch silver sealer interior paint. I have already identified a concentrated group of drums in the 72000-76000 serial number range which lack the silver sealer (see attached example) along with another hundred or so drums in that same range which have the silver sealer. I also have a few other reports of drums outside of this range which lack the silver sealer. I am seeking additional reports of:

1. Round Badge drums which possess paper labels with serial numbers but do not possess the silver sealer. Examples in any serial number range are requested.
2. Round Badge drums in the serial number range 72000 - 76000 which possess the silver interior paint. It is clear to me that only some of the drums in the specified range lack the silver sealer. I would like to quantify it if possible.

So, if you have a drum that fits the above criteria, please let me know about them.

Any help from the forum is welcome.
 

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levelpebble

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Let me get it started.....
 

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JazzDrumGuy

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I have a 5 1/2 x 14 mahogany snare shell, 3-ply, 6 lug, no silver sealer, but no paper tag either.....woh, woh......
 

RogersLudwig

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I am doing a study about 1960s Round Badge Gretsch drums which lack the usual Gretsch silver sealer interior paint. I have already identified a concentrated group of drums in the 72000-76000 serial number range which lack the silver sealer (see attached example) along with another hundred or so drums in that same range which have the silver sealer. I also have a few other reports of drums outside of this range which lack the silver sealer. I am seeking additional reports of:

1. Round Badge drums which possess paper labels with serial numbers but do not possess the silver sealer. Examples in any serial number range are requested.
2. Round Badge drums in the serial number range 72000 - 76000 which possess the silver interior paint. It is clear to me that only some of the drums in the specified range lack the silver sealer. I would like to quantify it if possible.

So, if you have a drum that fits the above criteria, please let me know about them.

Any help from the forum is welcome.
Do you know why this happened?
 

wflkurt

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Pardon me for asking a few questions that might be well known with Gretsch guys. I'm still learning more about Gretsch all the time as my knowledge is mostly WFL/Ludwig. Are the serial numbers in the range you are asking about Rick three ply late 50's? Did Gretsch use silver sealer on three ply drums before the switch to six ply? My 60's Progressive Jazz set was somewhat pieced together and have serials that are anywhere from 31992 to 51098. These numbers are lower than the numbers you are asking about yet they are newer made drums. Did Gretsch change over the numbers again in the 60's?

Sorry for all the silly questions but I am just trying to learn more so that I can expand my knowledge and potentially be helpful with stuff like this in the future. Thanks!
 

KCDrumDad

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Levelpebble - Thanks. I did not have your drum on my list.

Crash - For this study I am looking only at round badge drums, but would welcome information on your set.

RogersLudwig - I do not have an explanation for why this happened, but am hoping to document the drums where this occurred so it can be better understood. Right now, they seem concentrated in the four thousand drum group identified above. There are a few outside this range. There are also a number of drums where the silver sealer was quite light. Of course, there are also numerous examples of repainted interiors, usually in silver, but also in black, blue, pink, etc.... and some where the silver sealer has been removed.

To clarify - I am looking for drums after the application of the silver sealer became common practice in about 1954. To avoid confusing pre-sealer drums with no sealer drums, I am using the paper label as a way of showing that the drum "should have had" sealer. I also only have data collected on drums with serial numbers, as that is the origin of my list of drums. The drums will likely all be 6 ply, produced in the 1960s and have paper labels.

These drums without the silver sealer are not common, but some owners/sellers seem to believe that "rare" means "valuable." Others assume that these drums are from the 1950s because they lack the silver sealer, even though they have paper labels and other 1960s characteristics. Some come up with some pretty farfetched explanations for their drums, when a simple explanation is probably more accurate. I am one who does not like to speculate, instead I gather information and report observations. There has been too much speculation in the vintage drum world, leading to a lot of "legend and lore" that has little factual support.
 

KCDrumDad

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Pardon me for asking a few questions that might be well known with Gretsch guys. I'm still learning more about Gretsch all the time as my knowledge is mostly WFL/Ludwig. Are the serial numbers in the range you are asking about Rick three ply late 50's? Did Gretsch use silver sealer on three ply drums before the switch to six ply? My 60's Progressive Jazz set was somewhat pieced together and have serials that are anywhere from 31992 to 51098. These numbers are lower than the numbers you are asking about yet they are newer made drums. Did Gretsch change over the numbers again in the 60's?

Sorry for all the silly questions but I am just trying to learn more so that I can expand my knowledge and potentially be helpful with stuff like this in the future. Thanks!

Kurt - The basic timeline (although the exact dates are not known) is:
Prior to 1954ish - No silver sealer paint, no paper labels, 3 ply shells, date stamps often present.
1954ish - silver sealer is introduced, although a few examples of unpainted drums from after 1953 exist. No date stamps over the silver sealer.
1958ish - gradual switch from 3 ply to 6 ply shells. The 1958 date is approximate. I have not seen anything definitive.
1962ish - introduction of paper labels. For remainder of 1960s, the typical Gretsch drum has 6 ply shell, silver sealer, paper label with serial number.

Therefore, the unpainted shells with paper labels are not typical.

Hope that helps.
 
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paulwells73

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I have a RB 14x18 that I bought as part of a rewrapped kit, with a paper tag with serial #16763 (which I think dates from 1963?) This drum is wrapped in non-original BDP, and has one plugged hole from where the rail mount was moved to the center. When I bought the kit, there was very faint silver sealer inside, but it was quite faded, and you could see the wood grain inside the shell very clearly through the faded silver paint.

I sold this kit to Tom Killian, and he had it for about a year and a half before I bought it back from him. When I took the front head off the bass drum recently, I noticed that the paint was entirely gone, and the shell was now natural, with maybe a hint of a clear coat inside. Tom told me he never did anything to remove the paint or anything like that.

The possibilities are:

1. It was originally painted with silver sealer, and the sealer eventually evaporated.

2. It was originally painted with silver sealer, a previous owner removed the sealer and lacquered the inside, then the next owner attempted to repaint the shell, but didn’t do a good job (maybe they didn’t use the right kind of paint, and/or prepare the shell properly), and the silver repaint eventually faded.

3. It left the factory in 1963 without silver sealer, and someone tried to add it, but didn’t do a good job, and it faded.

I’m leaning towards 2. being the most likely scenario, but I thought I’d post it here in case you have other reports of 16xxx drums without silver sealer.
 

wflkurt

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Kurt - The basic timeline (although the exact dates are not known) is:
Prior to 1954ish - No silver sealer paint, no paper labels, 3 ply shells, date stamps often present.
1954ish - silver sealer is introduced, although a few examples of unpainted drums from after 1953 exist. No date stamps over the silver sealer.
1958ish - gradual switch from 3 ply to 6 ply shells. The 1958 date is approximate. I have not seen anything definitive.
1962ish - introduction of paper labels. For remainder of 1960s, the typical Gretsch drum has 6 ply shell, silver sealer, paper label with serial number.

Therefore, the unpainted shells with paper labels are not typical.

Hope that helps.


Thanks Rick, this is very helpful. So is the drum in the picture you posted a mid to late 60's drum with a six ply shell and paper tag that is just not painted with silver sealer? Ludwig stopped using white paint on drums in the early part of 1968. Maybe around March and April. Could this be something that Gretsch was thinking of doing but decided to just continue with the silver sealer? Could it be something simple like the factory running out of paint for a very short time? Interesting stuff.
 

rikkrebs

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Pardon me for asking a few questions that might be well known with Gretsch guys. I'm still learning more about Gretsch all the time as my knowledge is mostly WFL/Ludwig. Are the serial numbers in the range you are asking about Rick three ply late 50's? Did Gretsch use silver sealer on three ply drums before the switch to six ply? My 60's Progressive Jazz set was somewhat pieced together and have serials that are anywhere from 31992 to 51098. These numbers are lower than the numbers you are asking about yet they are newer made drums. Did Gretsch change over the numbers again in the 60's?

Sorry for all the silly questions but I am just trying to learn more so that I can expand my knowledge and potentially be helpful with stuff like this in the future. Thanks!
I had a three ply Gretsch 50's kit with silver sealer. It also had stick chopper rims and Gladstone floor tom mounts and fabric under the wrap.
 

ThomasL

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I believe you already have my drums in your database:

4416/72335 no sealer
4418/73316 silver sealer
14x20 BD, paper tag missing, so sealer
 

KCDrumDad

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paulwells - That is an interesting situation. I don't know which of the scenarios is most likely to be true. As I indicated, I have seen other drums with very slight silver sealer inside. There may be different things going on with different examples of light sealer.

Kurt - You are correct - the drum in the picture I posted is a mid to late 60's drum with a six ply shell and paper tag that is just not painted with silver sealer. I don't believe at this stage that these examples of Gretsch drums without silver sealer are much like Ludwig in March/April 1968. It does not seem nearly as comprehensive or complete of an effort. After all, I have only recorded 31 examples (counting the one from levelpebble above) in the particular serial number range. There are many examples of other drums in this serial number range which possess the silver sealer. I am open to explanations, which is why I am writing about the drums without the silver sealer.

rickrebs - That seems like a mid 50s drum, although I admit that I do not know when the wrap with the fabric underneath was prevalent. I understand that this was an earlier trend, but cannot put a date range to it. My strength is the serial number era.

ThomasL - I have noted that your 9x13 was originally reported as having no sealer when Pounder posted about in February 2009. When you messaged me about the set in August 2010, I thought that you indicated that the sealer was light, but present in the 9x13 and totally absent in the bass. Please let me know if I have this recorded incorrectly.
 

ThomasL

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ThomasL - I have noted that your 9x13 was originally reported as having no sealer when Pounder posted about in February 2009. When you messaged me about the set in August 2010, I thought that you indicated that the sealer was light, but present in the 9x13 and totally absent in the bass. Please let me know if I have this recorded incorrectly.

Sorry, I had forgotten about that. Here are two pics. What do you think, is that residual sealer or something that has accumulated throughout the years?
EOS_3293.JPG

EOS_3294.JPG


Here's the floor tom for comparison:
EOS_3301.JPG
 

KCDrumDad

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I am not sure. I tend to think there is some silver sealer on the tom.
 

Rich K.

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There's a tom being discussed on the Facebook Gretsch Owners page that has a tag but no silver sealer.
(If it has already been discussed here, never mind.)

 

rikkrebs

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Pardon me for asking a few questions that might be well known with Gretsch guys. I'm still learning more about Gretsch all the time as my knowledge is mostly WFL/Ludwig. Are the serial numbers in the range you are asking about Rick three ply late 50's? Did Gretsch use silver sealer on three ply drums before the switch to six ply? My 60's Progressive Jazz set was somewhat pieced together and have serials that are anywhere from 31992 to 51098. These numbers are lower than the numbers you are asking about yet they are newer made drums. Did Gretsch change over the numbers again in the 60's?

Sorry for all the silly questions but I am just trying to learn more so that I can expand my knowledge and potentially be helpful with stuff like this in the future. Thanks!
I had a 50's Gretsch 3ply with Silver interiors. It also had Gladstone floortom legs and stick chopper rims.
 


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