2 strainers on one snare?

APelletier

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Has anyone ever tried building a snare with 2 duplicate throws on each side instead of having a stationary butt on one side, because... Hey, why not?
 

Seb77

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Why would you want to drop the wires even lower? You'd need to pull both levers to raise the snares.
Some snare drums have adjustable butt ends: Yamaha snares have tension screws on the butt end side, the dw mag has a little lever.
 

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Tama and Mapex both have strainers with dual tensioning. I find those great, especially for keeping the snares even to the sides of the shell. The closest I've seen to a double throw is what Seb said -- with the DW. But I think that butt side only loosens them a bit for different snare sounds. I think a double throw would make it really hard to quickly and quietly get your snares on and off, especially mid-song.
 

APelletier

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Dennis Chambers maple sig drum has two strainers. I love it
This is what I was talking about. Not dropping snare wires too low or that I would have to switch on and off two levers to engage the snares... I mean, how many songs are you actively engaging and disengaging your snares for? I felt two identical snare throws on each side with adjustable dial in tension knobs could really be assets that would pay dividends to get it as sloppy or sensitive as you would want. I also thought the snare ribbon secured to the lower ends of two identical throws, versus a throw where the ribbon is attached low on the throw, with the opposite side ribbon attached to a butt that sits at a different angle on the side of the shell, would offer more even/ consistent tension of the snares all the way across the bottom of the snare head.
 

Seb77

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I felt two identical snare throws on each side with adjustable dial in tension knobs could really be assets that would pay dividends to get it as sloppy or sensitive as you would want. I also thought the snare ribbon secured to the lower ends of two identical throws, versus a throw where the ribbon is attached low on the throw, with the opposite side ribbon attached to a butt that sits at a different angle on the side of the shell, would offer more even/ consistent tension of the snares all the way across the bottom of the snare head.
Once tightened over the bearing edge, the angle of the ribbon/cord on the outside of the drum doesn't matter. Tension is always distributed evenly, that's mechanics. (If you tightened the wires so much that the shell is stressed, this angle might have an influence, but you shouldn't do this anyway).
Even with a simple strainer and butt end, you can go all the way from sloppy to crisp and in-between. Snare beds play a big role here, but you can influence the response to various degrees of tension, or also to different playing volume, with different wires, end plates, and cord vs. strap mounting.
 

APelletier

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Once tightened over the bearing edge, the angle of the ribbon/cord on the outside of the drum doesn't matter. Tension is always distributed evenly, that's mechanics. (If you tightened the wires so much that the shell is stressed, this angle might have an influence, but you shouldn't do this anyway).
Even with a simple strainer and butt end, you can go all the way from sloppy to crisp and in-between. Snare beds play a big role here, but you can influence the response to various degrees of tension, or also to different playing volume, with different wires, end plates, and cord vs. strap mounting.
I'd have to disagree. The traditional snare butt is stationary, fixed to the shell hardware. With the exception of the above mentioned butts with micro-adjustment, the only way the snares fall away from the snare head is at an angle, governed by the throw mechanism. With 2 throws, each side of the snare can drop in unison, much like a Ludwig super sensitive. Add to that micro-adjustments with the tension knobs on each throw, I would think one could precisely dial in the optimal snare tension. I'll add that, since the snares would fall away evenly, there would be no snare buzz when playing the snare with snares disengaged. I do agree about snare beds and experimenting with snare strand count and material (ie: brass, steel, bronze) to further enhance the sound you're chasing in your head or in the studio.
 

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So, the problem you're trying to solve is this?
snare buzz when playing the snare with snares disengaged
IMO, you still don't need two strainers to solve this, even if the wires fall at an angle; on most standard-strainer snares they are low enough.
Some snare do indeed have the problem of insufficiently dropped wires. I have a late 80s Pearl Session like that. As I see it, the problem occurs when the mounting point of the strap/cord on the strainer is too low and/or too far away from the shell, so the cord/strap is at a flat angle rather than (almost) vertical. Even if the throw-off travels sufficiently, the wires actually don't travel as much.
However, I think with most snares this isn't a problem. Maybe that 90s Dennis Chambers snare uses two strainers to achieve some extra clearance between wires and shell, but IMO you can achieve the same with just a well-designed single strainer. I remember the early Yamaha Steve Gadd snares being advertised as having a strainer closer to the shell. I didn't understand the reasoning back then, but it might just be to get sufficient clearance in the off-position, as he likes (used to like?) rather tight snares.

Parallel snare action: I have asked myself before what the actual purpose is, still have no real answer. "Pseudo-parallel" systems seem to produce the same sonic results, meaning just one strainer, but with extra-long wires and the straps led over rollers, one example being older Pearl Free-Floating snares.
 

Old PIT Guy

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If you're talking about something like the Weckl sig drum, I had one years ago and didn't use the feature all that much. Besides that, there was too much intrusion into leg space with 2 full strainers. There's only so much wiggle room positioning a single strainer out of the way of your leg, add another full throw-off and it's not good. But then I think the Trick throw is form over function, too, with that big arm that hits my leg when the snares are off.

If you mean a second throw on the opposite side, I don't see the need. I like being able to adjust tension from both sides, but only to center the wires accurately. For such a simple thing there seems to be a want to make snare drums fussy. I prefer set it and forget it simplicity. On/Off. The end.
 

SpinaDude

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I'd have to disagree. The traditional snare butt is stationary, fixed to the shell hardware. With the exception of the above mentioned butts with micro-adjustment, the only way the snares fall away from the snare head is at an angle, governed by the throw mechanism. With 2 throws, each side of the snare can drop in unison, much like a Ludwig super sensitive. Add to that micro-adjustments with the tension knobs on each throw, I would think one could precisely dial in the optimal snare tension. I'll add that, since the snares would fall away evenly, there would be no snare buzz when playing the snare with snares disengaged. I do agree about snare beds and experimenting with snare strand count and material (ie: brass, steel, bronze) to further enhance the sound you're chasing in your head or in the studio.
It sounds to me like you really have some ideas about how you could make a dual strainer work for you. And in the end, that's all that really matters, as opposed to what anyone else thinks. Assuming you will have to drill extra holes in the shell for this, I hope you try it on a cheaper drum first and see if it's really for you. It would suck to drill an expensive shell only to find you don't like the system.

If you do it, please let us know how it works.
 

APelletier

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So, the problem you're trying to solve is this?

IMO, you still don't need two strainers to solve this, even if the wires fall at an angle; on most standard-strainer snares they are low enough.
Not at all...
 

APelletier

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USA Peavey 1000 snare drums had strainer on both sides.
This is what I'm trying to convey... only without the ugly shell. same angle and directional pull of the snare wires on two duplicate throws with thumb knob tension adjustment.

peavy.jpg
 
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Seb77

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This is an example of a throw-off (two in this case?) at a large distance from the bearing edge (maybe not possible otherwise with this shell) and also in a low position, which results in a very flat angle of the straps, almost horizontal. Not the best choice of hardware and position, I have to say.

You can do anything you want, what I am trying to convey :) is there are more variables than using one or two strainers, and if you use the right strainer in the right position, you might get away with one just fine. Have you ever had a problem of wires being too close with snares off on a classic drum such as a P83 Supra? A simple design/setup that works, no need to change that imo.
 

APelletier

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Seb
This is an example of a throw-off (two in this case?) at a large distance from the bearing edge (maybe not possible otherwise with this shell) and also in a low position, which results in a very flat angle of the straps, almost horizontal. Not the best choice of hardware and position, I have to say.

You can do anything you want, what I am trying to convey :) is there are more variables than using one or two strainers, and if you use the right strainer in the right position, you might get away with one just fine. Have you ever had a problem of wires being too close with snares off on a classic drum such as a P83 Supra? A simple design/setup that works, no need to change that imo.
Seems you're from the "if it aint broke, don't fix it crowd... I am the polar opposite. Maybe something is being lost in German translation here, but I like to look at things from a different angle. You like time tested. I like to experiment. I find the old and traditional boring. Thank you for your input, but there some who have responded and offered examples of what the thrust of this thread is about. The older Dennis Chambers snare, the Dave Weckl signature and the Peavy Radial are examples of what this thread is about... this post isn't an argument for why something unorthodox shouldn't be done or wont work. Give that a rest please.
 
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I installed this. Eight different sounds. All off, 1, 2, 3, 12, 13, 23, all on. I enjoy it a lot!

Pearl Complete Symphonic Snare Strainer (Throw-Off) & Butt Plate ...
This is what I immediately thought of when I saw this thread. This is one of the Pearl Symphonic strainers, I have one on a Peral Symphonic snare and it's wonderful.

Rik, did you buy the strainer alone (separate from a drum?) How much was it, does it come already to fit a drum with a bead? Do you happen to know the part number, where did you order it? Was there any other work or parts involved to put it on an existing drum? Did it come with the snare wires and the butt? (Sorry for the many questions.)

And just because someone mentioned Dennis Chambers. Dennis often plays one of the Pearl Symphonic snares with this strainer and LOVES it. When I was thinking about getting one used, I emailed him to ask his opinion, and instantly my phone rang, it was Dennis saying, "Mark, buy it, buy it, buy it!" I did. I'm not sorry. It's a GREAT drum, but the strainer is what makes it GREAT!

By reading this entire thread I now know this is not what you mean, but I still had questions for Rik, sorry.

MSG
 

Rik_Everglade

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This is what I immediately thought of when I saw this thread. This is one of the Pearl Symphonic strainers, I have one on a Peral Symphonic snare and it's wonderful.

Rik, did you buy the strainer alone (separate from a drum?) How much was it, does it come already to fit a drum with a bead? Do you happen to know the part number, where did you order it? Was there any other work or parts involved to put it on an existing drum? Did it come with the snare wires and the butt? (Sorry for the many questions.)


MSG
Strainer came with the triple butt- ordered from Buffalo Drum Outlet for $73, I wish it came in gold plated versions. You would have to Dremel out its frame to fit over a bead, will not fit it stock. There is a "gate" for the snare chord that they put on the Symphonic hoops: I used a batter type hoop and drilled six holes for the snare chord...If you don't have/do this, the outer snare chord will be a little funny and spread to the outer part of an open snare gate. My snare wires are: 13" medium cable, 13" Puresound cut down to six strands, and a home-made six strand gut from an old violin BJ Welded to pure sound ends... and for kicks, I have a cocktail snare system for the batter head that gives some really cool sounds added to each of the eight combinations/permutations. No other work. Awesome 5.5"x 13" Fiberglass shell...I should post pics, it's a great snare.
 

SpinaDude

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This is what I'm trying to convey... only without the ugly shell. same angle and directional pull of the snare wires on two duplicate throws with thumb knob tension adjustment.

View attachment 453071
Do you have a strainer in mind that you plan to mirror on either side of the drum?

Also, I hope I didn't come off as dressing down your idea. That wasn't my intention at all. I was only going from my own perspective and limitations, which lead towards simplicity in this case.
 


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