20" A Zildjian with 7/16" mounting hole and a 60s stamp: one for Cliff

zenstat

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For those who don't know there is some history to the whole "1954 stamp". Let's just say it was contested, was claimed for some years but with no type specimen or identifying features ever published. Bill Hartrick who claimed to have found it has now let that go (earlier this year).

Here the idea has been picked up by Saluda (eBay name ufsports)


selling what appears to me to be your garden variety late 50s cymbal which received a 7/16" mounting hole when it was made. It had a 60s short stamp applied when it was ready to ship a couple of years later. That's my story anyway.
 
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zenstat

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BTW, there is no statistical evidence that cymbals identified as "1954 stamp" get higher prices than cymbals which are not so identified. It is hard to make a strong case since there are so many factors involved in the price a cymbal is likely to get. One of those factors is probably very nice looking irregular hammering and a darker more complex sound. But how do we untangle that from what trademark is on the cymbal? Given that there hasn't been an objective way to identify the "1954 stamp" itself this makes things difficult. I use the definition "has a 60s short stamp but the hammering looks late 50s". We don't know what buyers have in mind as a way to tell the difference (if they even know about the "1954 stamp").

If Bill had been right and the "1954 stamp" was right after the Trans Stamps and before the Large Stamps then one would expect them to have hammering (and lathing) styles which sit between Trans Stamps and Large Stamps. They don't seem to. One would expect them to start out with 7/16" holes if they were made before 1958 or so. They don't seem to, although once again holes can enlarged later on. This one is interesting because it is claimed to have a 7/16" hole and those are very uncommon. I don't expect the price to be significantly higher as a result, but we'll see. :dontknow:
 

zenstat

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I'm not quite sure what the bell circle is, but then I'm still behind on reviewing the hundreds of examples I've got from each different production era. We'll have to have an extended discussion about bell lathing styles and how they changed over time before I do my big review so I can code the images appropriately.
 

zenstat

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Picture = 1k words.

That's what I've been calling the "bald spot". I called it that because of the visual contrast between the tonal groove lathing on the sides of the bell versus the smooth pate on top. A lot like me. :icon_e_ugeek:

Here it is on two of my 1960s cymbals


18-60s.jpg




20-60s.jpg


The diameter of that circle measures 2 inches on both of these bells. Both of these cymbals are after the change in hammering style which happened after the early 1960s. If this pattern is also found on Trans and Large Stamps then the question moves to whether the frequency is different in different production eras, and can it be correlated with other attributes. I haven't checked all my cymbals yet but I don't remember any Trans or Large or Small which have it. That's where my large photo archives come into play.
 
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zenstat

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Update: had a look and I found one on my 80s Medium Ride. Except that the circle has shrunk to 1 7/8" on that one. On my Large Stamps one L2 has it at 2" diameter, the other L2 has nothing detectable, the L1 has it at 2" but barely there. On one Trans Stamp (T4) it is smaller (a bit under 1 7/8"), on my other Trans Stamp (T3) it is 2". I don't see anything on Small Stamps yet. I think I may need to get clarification on whether it is just something one sees and feels, or whether it can manifest as a visual demarcation only.
 
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zenstat

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Sold for $136.50 after 26 bids. Cliff should have it but I'm not sure he won...or if he was bidding.

That's in the range my model predicted. Priced like a 60s cymbal not some super special cymbal from just after the end of the Trans Stamps. Of course without interviewing the buyer we can't know if that was because Saluda has a low reputation in connoisseur vintage cymbal circles, the buyer didn't believe the the story, general condition, etc. :dontknow:

There were a couple of bidders with large feedback scores. There was a 1420 feedback person won it who is also currently bidding on a page of cymbals, and a 3355 feedback person had been in the running for a time at around $66. I'll let you know if it reappears...unless that was somebody here? :icon_e_wink:
 

Cliff DeArment

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Crap!!! Was going to bid, planning to be there, but something happened and couldn't get home in time. Guess it wasn't to be. Oh well...
 

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