60's Ludwig Oyster Black Pearl

drummer

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If one has two mid 60's OBP Sets
1. 9x13 16x16 14x22 Super Classic
2. 8x12 14x14 14x20 Downbeat
Hypothetically both are same condition
On the Vintage Market
is there a huge price difference between the two? Yes I am aware of prices for
14 " floor toms prices for all brands but wondering if this holds true as much with the Ringo factor.
 
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K.O.

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I think the Downbeat sizes (12/14/20) are always going to bring at least a bit more, even in Ringo world. A 1960s OBP 14x14 is the second most sought after drum size in that finish after a Jazz Festival.
 

drummer

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Yea I know 14x20 TYPO.
I think the Downbeat sizes (12/14/20) are always going to bring at least a bit more, even in Ringo world. A 1960s OBP 14x14 is the second most sought after drum size in that finish after a Jazz Festival.
KO
First off I hope you're on the mend and thanks for taking the time to respond.
A well known drum shop near me has the Downbeat and I own the Superclassic. I was there for a clinic and we had a casual discussion regarding value of the 2 sets. He basically stated all things being equal there is a 2 grand difference on the open market that's why I am asking for opinions. So thanks and hoping others will chime in. I know my best bet is to sell
out right and pay cash.
 

drummer

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I know that a Downbeat set or outfit as they were once known are generally worth more than a Super Classic no matter what the finish. But how much more is an OBP Downbeat vs an OBP Super Classic worth is what I'm asking. I know Ringo played a Downbeat first but moved on to the Super Classic and still plays a similar setup. So he's associated with both sets but more importantly his association is with the OBP finish and Ludwig name.
Again hit me up with some numbers I know some here follow and chart such info. Thanks
 

K.O.

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I have both, if I could keep just one it would probably be the Downbeat sized one. I know that has no bearing on your question and I really have no idea of any numbers to throw at you other than, as I mentioned above, the 14x14 is kind of a golden piece. The other sizes (besides the Jazz Festival) are relatively common. Ludwig was cranking out and selling OBP sets as fast as they could for 2-3 years. High demand pulls the prices up today, but these drums aren't remotely "rare" (other than the JF since virtually all the sets came with Supras, unless someone special ordered a matching wood snare).

OBP sets are atypical because not everyone that wants to own one of these sets is necessarily a drummer. Outside of our little drum collector community very few people seem to be aware that A: Ringo had more than one OBP set, and B: he used two different configurations of OBP drums. I'm not sure to what degree that effects the market but to a person, who might not be a drummer but loves the Beatles, or a drummer who just wants a "Ringo" set, the sizes may not matter as long as it looks like what they've seen in pictures.

Ringo actually used a Super classic sized set (#3) much more extensively, live, on TV, and in the recording studio, than any of the others. The Downbeat sized sets sort of disappear after A Hard Day's Night (although one makes a cameo appearance in Help, where it drops through the floor). So by rights those might be considered the more desirable sizes or more representative of his sound from mid 1964 omward. He did use the Downbeat sized set on Ed Sullivan though (and in AHDN) so those might hold a more special place in some people's hearts.

For drummers the Downbeat sizes probably are more desirable (at least in today's market) but I'm not sure the pricing disparity would be that great when you look at them as "Ringo drums", as either size will satisfy the itch to own such a set.
 

Ludwigboy

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Taking this a little further, which Downbeat sets are more desirable/ valuable....Downbeat sets with the Rogers tom mount hardware like Ringo's first set or the factory Ludwig rail mount Downbeat sets?
My impression is that period correct factory mounting hardware on other Ludwig sets (or other drum makers) is always more desirable but would like to hear from others on this...
 

K.O.

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On Downbeat sets either the rail or the Rogers would be "correct" since the #1 set never got the Rogers mod done to it. All three of the others had rails that were replaced so...extra holes. My guess is that generally speaking a set with the original rail is going to be worth more than a modded set. In my case I put a swivo on my downbeat because it already had other extra holes from a previous owner but I left the rail alone on my Super Classic set because it was still original. I guess it depends on how hard core of a Ringo-phile you are but I think most prefer originality to extra holes, despite not being exactly like Ringo's.

my downbeat set...

 
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cochlea

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From a collector's standpoint, I agree that the Downbeat is probably the quintessential "Ringo kit" due to its association with the Beatles first appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show on February 9, 1964. However, as a player's kit, I prefer the Super Classic due to its 16x16 floor tom. I could never get that low end "growl" out of my previous 14x14 floor tom.
 

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