70's cymbals - Bill Maxwell

swarfrat

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I've been thinking of adding some Zildjian A's to the stable (Currently playing APX), and it occured to me that since Bill Maxwell played on a bunch of the stuff I cut my teeth on, that might not be a bad place to start. But since I hadn't listened critically to much of that in years, decades before I ever picked up the drums. I was kind of surprised when I did. I kept hearing this dark ride that doesn't really sound like 1977 to me at all in some of the tracks where it was up front in the mix. I've read, but can't seem to find now, that he had a beloved K for his ride.

I'm kind of more shooting for a nice well rounded 70's rock set than trying to duplicate his setup, but am I barking up the right tree looking for medium A's? What about sizes? Hats? Crash?
 

Bri6366

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From the August 1983 Modern Drummer interview-

I have only one old K. Zildjian 22", my
baby, that I use mostly for a ride cymbal. I
offered to give a guy a drumset for that
cymbal because it sounded like Elvin
Jones’ cymbal, but he gave it to me. I use a
20" K. as an alternate ride and I have an
assortment of crash cymbals. Mostly I use
an 18" crash. The K.’s aren’t as bright as
the Paiste’s. I have Paiste hi-hat cymbals.
One is a 602 and the other half of the set is a
2002. They’re real bright. That’s my general
set-up if you see me playing live.
 

Joe A

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"Open Up" by James Felix came up recommended in a YT playlist of West Coast jernts I was listening to on a road trip. It was a pleasant acquaintance to his early playing—and it turns out he's in some Oklahoma Hall of Fame. An old buddy of mine had great things to say about him personally.
 

swarfrat

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Thanks for that - I'm always up for Hadley Hockensmith. I always sort of felt he never got the recognition Abe, Alex and Justo got.
 

shuffle

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Thanks for that - I'm always up for Hadley Hockensmith. I always sort of felt he never got the recognition Abe, Alex and Justo got.
Koinania,Keith Green,Andre Crouch,many more im sure.
Great feel!
Oklahoma style!
Sorry,cant help though.
 
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I interviewed Bill for the Percussive Arts Society's "Percussive Notes" a while ago, I LOVE his playing. He was in town producing-arranging-conducting for the Elton John, Leon Russell record. I don't know if the interview was ever published. He's a very nice guy, and yes, as previously mentioned he is from Oklahoma (like Keltner, Jamie Oldaker, and MANY other great players) and was involved in creating the second generation of the Tulsa sound.

He is a wonderful pocket drummer, the records I like him on are Andre Crouch "Finally," Freddie Hubbard "Fly Like The Wind" (not a good "jazz" record, it doesn't swing, but Bill's pocket and the rhythm section are grooving HARD!) Bill and Jim and Jay Bellerose all play (sometimes together) on Cassandra Wilson's "Thunderbird." The recent "Open Hands" (Bill, Abe, Greg, Justo) CD is really good as well.

A company released a box set a while back of all of the Koinonia's recordings. It had all four CD's and two DVD's included, it is called "All The Best." Abe Laboriel, Bill, and Alex Acuna (playing percussion) play together as one. It's PRICELESS and it is an education in groove!

Bill now works a great deal on the big T Bone Burnette projects (mostly soundtrack stuff,) produces, does some arranging, as well as some drumming. He is indeed one of the unsung talents in drumming and music.

MSG
 

swarfrat

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So it looks like I can't use Bill to justify a foray into vintage A's. Oh well.
 

JDA

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So it looks like I can't use Bill to justify a foray into vintage A's. Oh well.
(in similarities) (from decades of being familiar with these 4) (if I had to say unequivocally my opinion-in general)
Avedis Zildjian (including Avedis Ks) are 50-85% of Turkish K Zildjians.
Bosphorus/ Istanbul/ Diril cabal of modern post-80 Turkish makers about 40-70%
old Paiste 602 about 30-44%.
what you hear in those cymbals and what they can and cannot do - I mean in every and in all aspects- from build to sounds- relative to old K. (I -on stage -in practice- once recorded- deal with all 4 on a daily basis..lol)

Old Ks are killers. Just don't forget. They're Zildjians. The Zildjian "we didn't know much about" before 'we knew' what a Zildjian was...In other words "we" were familiar with Avedis Zildjian first before the Zildjian (Turkey K) that ran concurrent and prior..

for fun listen to a 70s sound era K Zildjian made in Turkey:

You can get 'traces' of that cymbal in other cymbals ('my percentages') but not everything. There's only 1 (actually about 6. sound era) old K made in Turkey.
And it's a Zildjian thing Avedis Zildjian did (and does) grasp a large percentage of.
about 14%-20% shy.
but when "you're backing up Cher on stage in vegas (or in a firehall in north huntingdon somewhere).. who much does it care..or how much does it concern.
To some it means everything to others it means nothing. and that's Ok.
It's why to some-many- Ks bring the bigger money (sometimes). they're Zildjians - but from a different mother (father, uncle or grandfather....
~
Now I think I'll go down and mess around with all four.
Btw never heard of Bill Maxwell until this thread. Thanks for that
 
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Burps

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I love Maxwell's drumming on this Paul Clark song recorded in 1977 and released in '78. He got to play loads of fills and rolls in this piece.

Hadley Hockensmith is on bass.
Harlan Rogers on keys
Curt Bartlett lead guitar
Paul Clark vocals and guitar
 

swarfrat

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This is one of the tunes I think of when I think about Bill's cymbals, it's a really sparse mix (piano, strings, bass, drums) so it really stands out: (Took me a while to find it - my brain can easily so 'where did I hear that lyric' but 'where did I hear that cymbal' is a bit harder)


That doesn't sound much like the sound files for that $1400 K on Reverb. It actually sounds a bit more like my Paiste prototype super industrial laundromat ride to my uneducated ears.
 
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Burps

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Green’s Grace by Which I Stand is one of my all time favorite tracks! It’s a masterpiece to me. Love that whole “Egypt” album.
 

JDA

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adjusted speaker balance; still barely hear 'a cymbal' there; hear crashes,
got another track?
 

shuffle

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Green’s Grace by Which I Stand is one of my all time favorite tracks! It’s a masterpiece to me. Love that whole “Egypt” album.
Clever,insightful,convicting album!
No Compromise is up there too
Back to regular programming!
 

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Warning-further derail...

Keith Green...

The Cat could flat-out play that piano...

Bill Maxwell, yep, one of those underrated, best kept secrets...
 

swarfrat

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adjusted speaker balance; still barely hear 'a cymbal' there; hear crashes,
got another track?
I guess from listening to the track about 3.7 billion times, it's part of my DNA now. He rides a bit in the intro, he might be riding a crash, but it sounds like most ride pattern examples I can think of on the Keith Green albums Bill played on (and produced). Super washy rides tend to work best in super low intensity sparse parts, and I'm not sure if they were a thing back then or not, so he could well be playing it on a crash.
 

JDA

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That's ok I'm done.



I "know" who he is now, took a minute)
 
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