A Buddy on Johnny Carson I did not know existed....

JimmyM

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Ernie Vantrease on piano and Wayne Pedziwiatr on bass and the chart is entitled "Journey".
They were fantastic, although I don't care much for Jazz Bass Jaco-Tone (TM). And I thought Buddy's set was tuned great for jazz but not that. But it was pretty awesome anyway, and the bass player did use an Ampeg tube amp, which as an endorser of Ampeg for 11 years now, is something every bass player should do :D
 

Ludwigboy

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I loved the way Buddy switched from traditional grip to matched grip near the end....., start about 12:10
 

Matched Gripper

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This is the absolutely coolest thing I’ve ever seen or heard from Buddy. Amazing.
Check out this thread and the video in it:

 

JimmyM

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Makes you wonder why he made that anti matched grip video.
It’s because at the time, he really believed that trad grip was the only way to go. But more than anything to prompt the change of heart, I think he didn’t want to get left behind in the times and had enough trouble being a trad jazzer.
 

GeneZ

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It’s because at the time, he really believed that trad grip was the only way to go. But more than anything to prompt the change of heart, I think he didn’t want to get left behind in the times and had enough trouble being a trad jazzer.
Not so... It was because at that time Buddy would (on the right occasion) use match grip when called for. I used to find myself flipping over to match grip when soloing in certain spots.

The reason Buddy hated it as it was being used, was because of those who would only play matched grip. Drummers that did that back then were seen as not learning a skill and discipline - wanting to cut corners. Lazy learners.

There is a precision that traditional grip afforded us. It took hours of training your brain and wrists to get with the right flow.

When I switched over to matched grip it was so I could pound out a beat on the toms. It was instinctive as to which grip to use according to the style of music being played.

Buddy was not against matched grip. He was against matched grip when traditional grip would have been more precise and exacting.

We need to find the context which he spoke in. This was how much Buddy was against matched grip.


 

GeneZ

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Buddy used "matched grip" plenty times when it fit the style being played!




Those who only can play matched grip he saw as primitive players. Those who refused the discipline to get the basics perfected.
 

5stroke

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The only thing bigger than Buddy's solo on this clip is the 'fro on the bass player!:toothy8:
 

hsosdrum

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Buddy's opinions about matched vs trad grip were rooted in old-school thinking and the era in which he came up through the ranks. Buddy, Freddy Gruber and all those guys were simply flat-out wrong about trad grip having any inherent superiority. It's all about whichever grip a drummer spends their time practicing/using the most. There's nothing that can be played using trad grip that can't be played exactly the same and just as well using matched grip. If trad grip was superior we'd use it for both hands.
 

GeneZ

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Buddy's opinions about matched vs trad grip were rooted in old-school thinking and the era in which he came up through the ranks. Buddy, Freddy Gruber and all those guys were simply flat-out wrong about trad grip having any inherent superiority. It's all about whichever grip a drummer spends their time practicing/using the most. There's nothing that can be played using trad grip that can't be played exactly the same and just as well using matched grip. If trad grip was superior we'd use it for both hands.

Buddy played matched grip... Check the last two videos.

Matched grip had its place.

Those who disciplined themselves and took the time to learn correct traditional grip (it took lots of practice and work to adapt to) tended to see the few matched grippers as low IQ learners. Matched was not something to be pursued by those who studied and took lessons.

While learning to play with traditional grip, some of us found it hard to do and just wanted to chuck it and start playing. Some quit class and started playing matched grip. Matched grip did not require any specialized training. It was just like letting the caveman in you to start playing on skin covered hollow logs.

When I used to jam at the Guitar Center I sometimes found it amusing when some young drummer watching would comment how I could play traditional grip. Like I was a freak of nature!
 

JimmyM

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Buddy played matched grip... Check the last two videos.

Matched grip had its place.

Those who disciplined themselves and took the time to learn correct traditional grip (it took lots of practice and work to adapt to) tended to see the few matched grippers as low IQ learners. Matched was not something to be pursued by those who studied and took lessons.

While learning to play with traditional grip, some of us found it hard to do and just wanted to chuck it and start playing. Some quit class and started playing matched grip. Matched grip did not require any specialized training. It was just like letting the caveman in you to start playing on skin covered hollow logs.

When I used to jam at the Guitar Center I sometimes found it amusing when some young drummer watching would comment how I could play traditional grip. Like I was a freak of nature!
I guess that's the perception of matched vs trad at one time. I learned trad when I was a kid and used it often. I still don't do badly with it considering I had a 40 year layoff from semi-regular playing. I think it sounds better when I try to play trad jazz with it, but after seeing so many matched grippers play jazz with the best of them, I think it's just because I'm not used to doing it.

OK, so I guess Buddy wasn't dead set against matched the whole time, but he did show techniques that he said couldn't be done with matched in that video we've all seen, and rarely used matched that I've seen in decades of TV shows and vids. And he certainly didn't want to lose his relevance to modern players.
 

GeneZ

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I guess that's the perception of matched vs trad at one time. I learned trad when I was a kid and used it often. I still don't do badly with it considering I had a 40 year layoff from semi-regular playing. I think it sounds better when I try to play trad jazz with it, but after seeing so many matched grippers play jazz with the best of them, I think it's just because I'm not used to doing it.

OK, so I guess Buddy wasn't dead set against matched the whole time, but he did show techniques that he said couldn't be done with matched in that video we've all seen, and rarely used matched that I've seen in decades of TV shows and vids. And he certainly didn't want to lose his relevance to modern players.
To each his own....
 

drumboy1956

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...and he played matched grip!
I noticed that, too. Coming from a guy that stated you can't "move around the kit" unless you play traditional grip all while downplaying any drummer that played any style but jazz. I'll always give him his well deserved due, but ....
 

GeneZ

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I used to switch to matched when I went into what I called jungle beats in a solo. Not a lot of moving around the set needed and mostly on the floor tom, done for when loud impact was needed for each beat... Mostly used for tom work breaks, rimshot accents, and not snare work.

When I was first learning (1960's) a few who resented traditional grip, usually wanted to skip lessons and play before they were ready. Later on... It became that anyone could play just to keep a beat.

Almost all skilled top rock drummers back in that day played traditional grip, and could switch to matched when doing certain floor tom bars. Well..... To each his own.
 
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Ian S

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:scratch: You believe Buddy was also the sound engineer at the mixing board?

On my system Buddy was emphasized, but the other two blended in well enough.

The mix isn't the only issue. It's Buddy's "I'm the player" spotlight, and despite the bass solo, the tune is just another opportunity for the great Buddy Rich to show off his "amazing chops", which frankly start to sound canned and regurgitated to me by now..

I listened twice, IMO Buddy overshadows and ultimately overpowers the other musicians, as per usual throughout his career.
 
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