A particularly hard latin foot ostinato for me?

wolfereeno

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I can play a basic foot samba and solo over it easily. And I do the Alan Dawson ritual somewhat regularly. But this simple variation is mentally killing me. I can play very basic things on top of it but want to be able to move forward to playing freely over it.

HH on 1 and 3
BD on 2&, 4

I just keep hitting a mental block where my BD stops.

Firstly, what's the correct name for this rhythm? I see it often refereed as a samba beat but that seems incorrect. Maybe I can find some decent vids or exercises to try to break through.

I suppose I can continue to try to play diff rudiments over it very very slowly. I tried using a metronome playing a Clave to reinforce the feel - especially since phase 2 would be to play a LF clave.

Any peals of wisdom?

Thx!
 

cworrick

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Never heard of this in any of the Latin groves I've studied. But I'm in an Indiana corn field. I could have missed something.

Join Marching Band.

Most (there are a few exceptions) march leading with the left foot on 1.
You end up marching all year with left foot on 1 & 3 and the right foot on 2 & 4.



Then you spend the rest of the year trying to reverse all that training to be able to play set again.
 

wolfereeno

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Join Marching Band.

Most (there are a few exceptions) march leading with the left foot on 1.
You end up marching all year with left foot on 1 & 3 and the right foot on 2 & 4.



Then you spend the rest of the year trying to reverse all that training to be able to play set again.
HAHA!

I'm 57, they might not take me back!

I did plenty of marching time in HS but have no recollection which foot we would have started on. But we were a terrible band. However I did get to march through Studio 54 in 1979 with Truman Capote leading the band. I was 16 and still haven't recovered.

Funny about feet. It's a hard habit to break. I'm a runner and think a lot about leading with my left foot when I run just to mess with my mind.

Thx
 

RIDDIM

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I've seen a lot of it on Brazilian gigs. When you play a samba, instead of open and closing the high hat on 2 and 4, try it on 1 and 3. It's character building initially, but it gives a different flavor. Go slow and you'll get it.
 

ThomasL

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I'd call it songo. IMO it's one of the easiest and most fun patterns to solo over (once you have it internalized).
 

Seb77

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HH on 1 and 3
BD on 2&, 4
what's the correct name for this rhythm?
This would be a Cuban pattern such as son, it's also the basis for a lot of songo patterns.
I could imagine it messes with your mind since it's basically the opposite of sambs where the bass is on 1 and 3 and the hi-hat on 2 and 4.
I would tackle it coming from some songo patterns and vary these. That way you have already learned a useful style, not just some sticking combinations.
 

multijd

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That bass drum pattern is just a tumbao, unless I'm not understanding something.
Yes Tumbao. “Left- right left-right“ left/hihat is the pulse. Practice that pattern with clave in your left hand and one of the bell patterns (bongo, mambo, cascara, mozambique) in your right. Then switch hands. You’ll start to loosen up after awhile.
 

wolfereeno

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Its something Antonio Sanchez solos over a lot but I couldn't find what I was looking for.


 

Old PIT Guy

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There should be a book "101 ways to play a songo"

The key to this stuff is sound levels with style.

This is from a lesson with Mark Craney way BITD. It reads mundane but if you'd heard him play it you wouldn't think it was.
 

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wolfereeno

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I had a handbook of latin rhythms when I was a young student and just played off the page most sounded the same. The difference was often the Dance that was associated with them, of which I knew nothing. So the tempo, volume, feel and accompaniment...

Not sure dance styles are a thing anymore in the West other than at weddings, but all those 60's dances like the twist or the mashed potato, the music often sounds the same.

But the latin dances are completely unfamiliar. And unfortunately my Peruvian wife is of no help - she's rhythmically challenged and didn't grow up much of a dancer!

But this simple songo beat is deceptively hard. Not sure if its the HH on 1 & 3 or the BD thats throwing me.
 

Old PIT Guy

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Context really does help, but you can glaze over if it's not something you really like. In school, the instructor played Latin music with lesson samples and none of it had a drummer. We'd identify the clave and various percussion instruments and learn those parts. And we'd occasionally construct a drum part to recreate those parts. I wished I'd paid more attention, but like other guys my interest was more aligned with learning contemporary hip linear Latin grooves and not the roots of it. Which was really shortsighted.
 

Tymp2002

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I can play a basic foot samba and solo over it easily. And I do the Alan Dawson ritual somewhat regularly. But this simple variation is mentally killing me. I can play very basic things on top of it but want to be able to move forward to playing freely over it.

HH on 1 and 3
BD on 2&, 4

I just keep hitting a mental block where my BD stops.

Firstly, what's the correct name for this rhythm? I see it often refereed as a samba beat but that seems incorrect. Maybe I can find some decent vids or exercises to try to break through.

I suppose I can continue to try to play diff rudiments over it very very slowly. I tried using a metronome playing a Clave to reinforce the feel - especially since phase 2 would be to play a LF clave.

Any peals of wisdom?

Thx!

On the high-hat, have you tried the toe-heal, or the heal-swing, (heal bounces left-to-right, or vice-versa) technique? I like to use the heal-toe on high-hat technique for jazz swing grooves - heal down on 1 & 3 - toe down on 2 & 4 - using a rocking motion.

Of course with all new things, start slowly and methodically.

Good luck!
 

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