Age of this older Sabian HH?

Mcjnic

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Ditto. I had put it square for you, Zen. Man, I'm sorry it's not here. I don't dare retype it and have it vanish again. Someone will eventually explain what word or words were misspelled. Hahaha
 

Mcjnic

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Got the word ... Sincere apologies for resorting to using a name on here. Honestly thought it was funny ... bad call on my part.

So, now we move on.

Zen,
The original post stated something like this:
Hey, it's all good. I was taken aback that you would post anything with that negative flavor ... which is how I read it. It frustrated the heck out of me that I had to go through all this just to provide the OP with a potential answer.
I expect it from TITUSPULLO ... but your response really took the breath out of me.
I have a deep respect for the work you have done and have always considered you to be a positive force here. That's why it kind of shocked me.
Anyway, hope it's all good between us.
As to your request:
It's was a response from Cymbalbob on Sabian's Forum a while back. As most know, Cymbalbob is Robert Mason.

So, I hope this helps. It was my belief that this was common knowledge because it had been around for a while ... my bad.
 

bongomania

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FWIW, all of the snark and negativity would have been avoided completely if you had posted the Robert Mason quote first, or even said something like "Sabian's marketing guy claimed in a forum post that it's Sabian rewritten with Armenian characters".

Instead you chose to open with something that made no sense, and then doubled down on your position with the condescending line about "the study of language teaches us that words have more than one meaning", even though it was clear all you did was Google it once. That's why I shot you down.

Since Sabian is not a word with any meaning in this context (i.e. not talking about the obscure religious group or the Spanish conjugation), it can't be translated. No human or internet translator can do it. As zen stated, it was made up from parts of the first names of the Zildjian siblings. What "Sabian in Armenian" would have to mean is the letters or phonetics of the name written in Armenian script--not translated.

At any rate, I have put in requests at a couple of Armenian language forums for confirmation of what the inscription on this cymbal says, and I'll post their replies here.
 

Mcjnic

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You are absolutely correct.
I erred on this one. I take full responsibility for missing the boat on it.

I honestly was under the impression that this was widely known information. That was my first mistake.
Had I not worked under that assumption, it would have played out much differently.

And that is why I take responsibility for it. I made the first and only meaningful mistake.

The rest of it is what it is. We all played to the piper and we all have our own parts to deal with. Frustration and tempers will sometimes rule the thread. That shouldn't be, but we are human and very fallible. For my part, I feel remorse.
 

zenstat

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Mcjnic said:
Got the word ... Sincere apologies for resorting to using a name on here. Honestly thought it was funny ... bad call on my part.

So, now we move on.

Zen,
The original post stated something like this:
Hey, it's all good. I was taken aback that you would post anything with that negative flavor ... which is how I read it. It frustrated the heck out of me that I had to go through all this just to provide the OP with a potential answer.
I expect it from TITUSPULLO ... but your response really took the breath out of me.
I have a deep respect for the work you have done and have always considered you to be a positive force here. That's why it kind of shocked me.
Anyway, hope it's all good between us.
As to your request:
It's was a response from Cymbalbob on Sabian's Forum a while back. As most know, Cymbalbob is Robert Mason.

So, I hope this helps. It was my belief that this was common knowledge because it had been around for a while ... my bad.
No worries. I did see the original post. I've begun the traceback trying to find the quote in original context. Sadly, the removal of the Sabin forum makes that more difficult. I've got other work I've had to swap to, but I did get some way via the Wayback machine. But the Wayback snapshots from 2006 and earlier don't always have the actual posts. I know to focus on 2006 and earlier because the quote was "out there" by then. For me, knowing it is 2006 or earlier is part of making the citation complete. Who said it, where they said it, when they said it.

Traceback on the first sentence of quote via Google: "The signature on the btm of all our Hand Hammered cymbals is really the name Sabian in Armenian." This is often a good way to find previous usages, especially when the sentence or phrase contains an unusual feature (like bottom shortened to btm).

https://www.officialdrummer.com/forum/topic/6188-were-sabian-hhs-signed/ (2009)

https://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?263072-HHX-First-Run-Cymbals (2012)

http://foorum.trummar.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=247&start=15 (2006) (in Estonia Google Translate tells me :happy11: )

Does this kind of work take a lot of time? Yes. Does it make for more robust information? Yes. Is it worth it? I think so.

** edit ** my links have been mangled by the rewriting code when I posted. I'll fix them up manually now.
 

zenstat

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marko52 said:
Could someone tell me how to get to the Sabian forum? thanks.....marko
They seem to have closed down some years ago. You can see some parts of them via the wayback machine

The overview of the snapshots: http://web.archive.org/web/*/sabian.com

Focus on 2006: http://web.archive.org/web/20060501000000*/http://sabian.com

Site as at 1 January 2006: http://web.archive.org/web/20060101043820/http://www.sabian.com/

click on the big red dot in the upper right corner THE ZONE and voila: http://web.archive.org/web/20051223214331/http://www.sabian.com/sabiantalk/forum/index.cfm?forumid=1

If you want to learn to navigate the wayback machine yourself there are help files.

This makes me wonder about when companies started dropping their use of forums. A number of them did. Was it about the same time? Did they discover that running a forum was no longer needed because independent forums filled that need? When did social media (thinking about Facebook) make the old style forum less valuable to companies?
 

zenstat

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Mcjnic said:
Not sure if he checks it, but here's his FB page

https://www.facebook.com/cymbal.bob

I've also got his Twitter feed, but he's been off that for a few years. Not much help there.
Thanks but I don't do Facebook or Twitter. I only recently came by my very first mobile phone (and older Google Nexus 4 still on Jellybean) as a hand-me-down. I only took it on in order to redesign my web sites for use on mobile devices.

The loss of the Sabian forum is unfortunate in terms of historical research. The same thing happened with the Zildjian forum. And somebody who had backed up major chunks of the Z forum on his own PC later had a disk crash (this is some years ago now) so we lost all of that as well. Maybe it is all available just by asking on Facebook, but I'm not keeping up with the times. Old fashioned. I still have a wall of genuine printed out on paper reference texts. And a dog eared copy of The Cymbal Book. :happy11:
 

bongomania

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Cliff DeArment said:
For some reason, they wrote Sabian with one letter wrong. The bell says Sapian (with real Armenian).
... there are two types, Eastern Armenian (saPian - normal Armenian - Armenia, Russia, Georgia, Iran) and Western Armenian (saBian - US, France, Lebanon, Syria, Argentina). This gives Sabian and Sapian two options. The family is Eastern Armenian.
And here is another person confirming what you say:
https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/38vpbw/help_with_an_armenian_inscription_on_a_cymbal/

Edit: a day later, there are a few people in that conversation, and they all agree it says Sabian. However they say the Zildjian family are Western Armenians, hence spelling it that way (with a B sound, not a P).
 

Cliff DeArment

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I stand corrected. Good to know.

I always thought they were Eastern... with Aram working with the "Armenian National Movement". Very complicated stuff between Western and Eastern Armenian. Thank you for finding this.

My name is Arment and the family was in France a long time ago (DeArmand in french, DeArment in the US). But, my father was adopted, so all of this is weird. I'm danish and scottish, so making sense of any of this is a nightmare!

(I had a very good friend who was Armenian. We were two young drummers known as "The Armenians brothers". He looked Armenian, but I didn't. So, it was a laugh for years.)

I still think Sapian is funny... But wrong is wrong. :icon_smile:
 


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