Agop Convert

Tracktuary

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To my ears, many of today's Turkish brands are caricatures of the Old K sound. They dial up the trash, mids, white noise, etc., but they miss the full spectrum of sound and possibilities. I refer to some of those "Old K Clones" as "stick and static" because that's all I hear. Perhaps many of these are created for standalone cymbal clips and performances. A friend of mine plays in a couple of different rock bands--one more pop and the other more country. Both times I went to hear them live, his Agop ride cymbals were non-existent in the mix.

Joe is onto something about Zildjian having the knowledge on cymbal making. Any one of us can look up the ingredients on a can of Coca-Cola, but none of us could get a soda to taste like that. I think it's in the cup and bow. Hit the bell of a Zildjian and it also activates the lows of the cymbal. While machine-made, K Cons have some of the best bells I've ever heard. Almost every other cymbal brand has more of a piercing bell (i.e., all highs). This, in combination with the alloy, may affect the stick sound, as well. All of the Agops I've owned or tried have more of a "zing" whereas Z gets more of a "tang." The former is narrower, and the latter is broader (i.e., it finds a place to cut through regardless of the other sounds in the mix).
 

JDA

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did I use the word dichotomy correctly there....checking. yep.
24 pts. double-word score yes!
 

D. B. Cooper

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To my ears, many of today's Turkish brands are caricatures of the Old K sound. They dial up the trash, mids, white noise, etc., but they miss the full spectrum of sound and possibilities. I refer to some of those "Old K Clones" as "stick and static" because that's all I hear. Perhaps many of these are created for standalone cymbal clips and performances. A friend of mine plays in a couple of different rock bands--one more pop and the other more country. Both times I went to hear them live, his Agop ride cymbals were non-existent in the mix.

Joe is onto something about Zildjian having the knowledge on cymbal making. Any one of us can look up the ingredients on a can of Coca-Cola, but none of us could get a soda to taste like that. I think it's in the cup and bow. Hit the bell of a Zildjian and it also activates the lows of the cymbal. While machine-made, K Cons have some of the best bells I've ever heard. Almost every other cymbal brand has more of a piercing bell (i.e., all highs). This, in combination with the alloy, may affect the stick sound, as well. All of the Agops I've owned or tried have more of a "zing" whereas Z gets more of a "tang." The former is narrower, and the latter is broader (i.e., it finds a place to cut through regardless of the other sounds in the mix).
For some reason it is just a touch more offensive when cymbals that are actually made in turkey don't compare to old K's. But I think it's safe to say that no manufacturer is making anything that's very comparable to Old K's. To me, that's ok. Someday, 50 years from now people will talk about "20's Paiste's" or "20's K Cons" (in reference to 2020's) and how unique their sound was. I personally like the variety of cymbal sounds available today. It allows an artist a lot of paints for the canvas.
I think almost every cymbal ever made has its musical place and context where it can shine. Finding the ones for me is the adventure, and I try my best to not look at cymbals that don't fit my needs as inadequate.

Not a dig on you Tractuary, in fact I don't mean this post to be a "dig" at all, it just seems that these sentiments come up often when modern Turkish stuff is discussed.
I've actually had a very similar experience to you in terms of the thinner stuff getting lost in the mix, namely my Bosphorus Syncopation Ride and Master Vintage rides.

But doesn't Agop make heavier pies as well? Were the ones you heard designed to be heard over amplified guitars?
 

D. B. Cooper

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no they won't :) They'll still be talking about "old" KS!
Well, you'll probably be dead, so there will be no one spreading The Gospel.
Have you lined up any young disciples to carry on the work once you go?
 

JDA

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Well, you'll probably be dead, so there will be no one spreading The Gospel.
Have you lined up any young disciples to carry on the work once you go?
That'd be Miles Davis and Tony Williams recordings (if they last Old Ks will last) it was never me! lol

Miles and Tony (and Jon Christensen and others) are dead- but their music and escapades are immortal
 

JDA

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So when or if music society cancel-cultures "Miles Smiles" and " Seven Steps to Heaven" vinyl Lps the Old K will die along with it

And I have it on good word Elon plans on taking Miles Davis to Mars along with him
 

jaymandude

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To my ears, many of today's Turkish brands are caricatures of the Old K sound. They dial up the trash, mids, white noise, etc., but they miss the full spectrum of sound and possibilities. I refer to some of those "Old K Clones" as "stick and static" because that's all I hear. Perhaps many of these are created for standalone cymbal clips and performances. A friend of mine plays in a couple of different rock bands--one more pop and the other more country. Both times I went to hear them live, his Agop ride cymbals were non-existent in the mix.

Joe is onto something about Zildjian having the knowledge on cymbal making. Any one of us can look up the ingredients on a can of Coca-Cola, but none of us could get a soda to taste like that. I think it's in the cup and bow. Hit the bell of a Zildjian and it also activates the lows of the cymbal. While machine-made, K Cons have some of the best bells I've ever heard. Almost every other cymbal brand has more of a piercing bell (i.e., all highs). This, in combination with the alloy, may affect the stick sound, as well. All of the Agops I've owned or tried have more of a "zing" whereas Z gets more of a "tang." The former is narrower, and the latter is broader (i.e., it finds a place to cut through regardless of the other sounds in the mix).
" Dude, I can't hear your ride cymbal"
 

Tracktuary

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For some reason it is just a touch more offensive when cymbals that are actually made in turkey don't compare to old K's. But I think it's safe to say that no manufacturer is making anything that's very comparable to Old K's. To me, that's ok. Someday, 50 years from now people will talk about "20's Paiste's" or "20's K Cons" (in reference to 2020's) and how unique their sound was. I personally like the variety of cymbal sounds available today. It allows an artist a lot of paints for the canvas.
I think almost every cymbal ever made has its musical place and context where it can shine. Finding the ones for me is the adventure, and I try my best to not look at cymbals that don't fit my needs as inadequate.

Not a dig on you Tractuary, in fact I don't mean this post to be a "dig" at all, it just seems that these sentiments come up often when modern Turkish stuff is discussed.
I've actually had a very similar experience to you in terms of the thinner stuff getting lost in the mix, namely my Bosphorus Syncopation Ride and Master Vintage rides.

But doesn't Agop make heavier pies as well? Were the ones you heard designed to be heard over amplified guitars?
I hear you, DB! My post could definitely come off elitist, and that was not my intention at all. All I owned were Zildjians up until about 3 years ago. I then went down the rabbit hole, buying more Zs and a lot of other brands (Agop, Bosphorus, Sabian). Each had characteristics that I liked, but for the total picture, my ears align with Zildjian. That said, I do really like a 21" Bosphorus Master ride (1857g) that I own. The bell is a still a joke compared to that of my 22" Old K, but it feels good to play, it records well, and it is a good volume for my typical venue.
 

TPC

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The bell is a still a joke compared to that of my 22" Old K, but ...
To be fair, all bells sound like ass compared to that one. ;)

Agop bells can be weird. I had a 24" Trad Dark Ride, and the bell was practically silent. You could whack it hard and get almost no sound.
 

JS_91

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I have a couple of Agop 30ths and I think they capture the old K vibe pretty well. The 22 does especially. I kind of prefer it to a couple of old Ks I’ve played.

Some ...interesting.. generalities in here about Turkish cymbals being “thin” and not being able to even compare to old Ks.

I guess everyone has their own take, lol.
 

jaymandude

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in my opinion. Ha ha. The reverse engineering thing that’s going on can work well a lot of the time. I generally don’t have that many complaints myself.

The deficiencies show up when you compare it to a good or great old K. Not the dogs. Not the ones you can’t really get with. But the better ones. Then you start to know how the modern replicas and sound alikes fall short
 

219Dave

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My one agop is the 22 signature china. See Carter McLean’s video on it. I play it right side up. I looked for a long time to match the china sound in my head. It is perfect. Every time I hit it I feel like I just read a great mystery novel.
 

JS_91

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My one agop is the 22 signature china. See Carter McLean’s video on it. I play it right side up. I looked for a long time to match the china sound in my head. It is perfect. Every time I hit it I feel like I just read a great mystery novel.
I've had my eye on these for a while. Waiting for the right one or one to come up used before spending the money. I have a 20 inch turk china though and it's killer. Similar sound for sure. Those chinas are super versatile.
 

sw532121

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A lot of Agop love and hate in this thread, which is actually refreshing. If we all liked the same cymbal tones, it would be a pretty boring world.

Regardless, I've gone Agop crazy. I just love them. Very pleased with their diverse lineup. I've now acquired:

13" Signature Hats
14" 30th Anniversary Hats
15" Signature Hats
18" OM Crash
18" Signature Crash x2
20" Xist ION China
21" Mel Lewis Ride
22" Special Edition Jazz Ride
22" 30th Anniversary Ride
23" Signature Ride
 


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