Am i the only one who has never had any luck with Paiste?

mc437

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Here’s an idea: post some music you’ve played on so Paiste players can make some suggestions of cymbals that might fit.
 

WLVN

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Paiste Cymbal set-up for this recording:

14" Sound Creation Dark Hi-hats
18" Sound Creation Bright Ride
20" 602 Medium Flat Ride
20" 602 Heavy
16" 2002 Crash
18" 2002 Medium

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View attachment 476664
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May 1984
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hear here:

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the end
Cool! I remember this... now where did I put it?
 

JDA

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Cool! I remember this... now where did I put it?
I dunno but if you find it; find mine while you're at it (Chester Thompson did a similar one (for Paiste) around the same (that one I could find but the Bruford one is stuffed in a magazine location somewhere unknown... ; )
 
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JazzyJeff

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Geez, I bought those damn Agops because of that video, last Christmas!!! No lie. And guess what? They stink!!! Really really stink!! I immediately knew I made a mistake. They’re useless in the real world and I couldn’t make them work for anything. And yes, ok, I’m no Carter McLean!

I hate Carter McLean because I thought he made them sound great, but they don’t sound great, at all!!! Sold all of them, although the hats were pretty good.

So you know what you can do with your pipe, right? :icon_lol:
I just bought a few of these, 17” and 20” crashes, and a 20” flat ride. The flat ride is not what I would call a cymbal, more like a pan, but I’m still messing with it. The crashes are awesome in my opinion, and add a texture and sound that other cymbals/ effects cymbals can’t. I love them.
This was my point - it’s all personal preference. Your “nonsense” cymbal is a sound that is anything but nonsense to me.
smoke’em if ya’ got ‘em.
 

JimmySticks

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I just bought a few of these, 17” and 20” crashes, and a 20” flat ride. The flat ride is not what I would call a cymbal, more like a pan, but I’m still messing with it. The crashes are awesome in my opinion, and add a texture and sound that other cymbals/ effects cymbals can’t. I love them.
This was my point - it’s all personal preference. Your “nonsense” cymbal is a sound that is anything but nonsense to me.
smoke’em if ya’ got ‘em.
LOL! All good, I’m glad you like them.

Agreed, the crashes are doable and you can make them usable for some things, I guess, but give me a good china any day for effects. I find the rides to be completely unusable for any style. Personally, I’ve never seen Carter play these cymbals except in a demo, but not in the real world. This is very much a niche thing, and a small one at that. That’s why Paiste isn’t into this. But cool if you like them!
 

Burps

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When I started to purchase cymbals one at a time as a late teenager and into my twenties in the 1980s I was hearing all the propaganda between the so-called sonic qualities of Paiste verses Zildjian and Sabians, which were the big three of that day. I was hearing people say that Paiste's are brighter/more metallic and the other 2 brands are not as bright and are more pleasing/less metallic. Obediently, I started with Zildjian and Sabians. I also kept hearing from people that Paiste makes their cymbals like the budget cymbals by Zildjian/Sabian, so why would I want the "inferior" sound and "inferior" manufacturing techniques of Paiste? Right?

I was so brainwashed by the propaganda that I thought that whenever I heard a bright shimmery cymbal it must be Paiste, and whenever I heard a darker and less sparkly cymbal then it must be Zildjian or Sabian. Boy was I deceived. Maybe it's true that the sound of Paiste is very consistent and are generally known for that brilliance and shimmer, but I found out that it's not true across the board, and it's not true that Zildjian/Sabian never makes super bright, metallic sounding cymbals, even within the B20 alloy.

Those with experience also realize that a drumstick makes a big difference on cymbals, as well as the way one plays it, and the acoustics of the surroundings. It's possible to make a dark cymbal sound brighter and a bright cymbal sound darker, etc. I guess my main point is that each cymbal has to be judged on its own and it's impossible to know all the nuances of a cymbal, its pros and cons, without playing it in various situations for a period of time. The various cymbal lines that each company makes are purposely made to have a specific quality that drummers are looking for. As a Paiste fan, I know which lines do it for me and which lines that generally don't. Same with the Zildjian and Sabians. Out of the millions of choices that are out there, I really only want a very small percentage of cymbals that suits me. What do I care if the rest don't please me? I can find what I like, and don't like, in just about any major cymbal manufacturer.
 
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RobbiefromAtlanta

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Funny that I came across this thread after buying some 15”GB hats and a 19” GB multi today to go with my 2 20” light and multi and 22”GB. I was never a Paiste fan until they rereleased the GB’s. Fell in love with the line. I still use my Zildjian’s and Meinl’s but it’s nice to have a set of cymbals that are bright but not crazy bright or mix and match when a gig calls for it.
 

Mcjnic

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“Paiste” translates to “Shine” ... so the idea that they possess a bright shimmer is to be expected.
This is something I tend to forget as I select cymbals.
Luckily, there are some phenomenal models that sit well with my ears. And they retain that shimmer.
 

pwc1141

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Each to his own. I have mainly Bosphorus cymbals with one Istanbul but of all the cymbals I have ever owned the one I can still hear in my mind 20 years later is a Paiste 18" flat ride that was very buttery and mellow. Moving house and countries led to selling up back then but I wish I still had it. Each cymbal is unique due weight, lathing etc even within any brand's series so I can't say that any one brand is good or bad.
 

TPC

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I think there’s a tendency to exaggerate the attributes of a particular manufacturer in our minds. I use as evidence the many blind “guess the cymbal” tests where very few have consistently and correctly distinguished Paiste from Zildjian.

A 3000 Power Ride from a Kerope? Sure. But a Masters from an old A? A Twenty Light from a modern K? Nah. Roughly the same number of correct responses as a random guess.
 

JDA

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“Paiste” translates to “Shine” .

where did or how does that come from
Paiste as Russian or what
 
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I like the Paiste Masters line but also like HH Sabian, Zildjian K and A Customs. Haven't tried Istanbul but would like to some time, as well as UFIP.
 

Burps

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When we have already made up our minds, like I used to do, that a particular cymbal will be x and this other cymbal over here will be y, we often can deceive ourselves. In this demo of two identically sized crashes, unless the audio has been altered somehow, reveals a B8 cymbal sounding darker than a B20. I've heard the question whether it's "OK" to mix 2002s with K Zildjians, and some would say no, they are too different alloys and too different sounding to mix well together. We've been conditioned to believe the 2002 will be the brighter cymbal and the K darker, but that isn't always true. My ears may be different from others and we can hear things differently, but this video proves to me that we have to compare side by side before we can make a judgment on "shimmer", "pitch", "harshness" , "volume" or whatever.


EDIT:

So, I'm now listening to this video a day later and I hear it the opposite now. The 2002 does seem generally brighter and the K lower. How can that be? I'm listening on the very same speakers and it sounds totally different to me. I think I'm losing it. :dontknow:
 
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Markkuliini

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In this demo of two identically sized crashes, unless the audio has been altered somehow, reveals a B8 cymbal sounding darker than a B20.

I checked the typical weights for both models and this is a good comparison since both are usually around 1450 gr in 18" size.

The 2002 has lower pitch and that might be confusing. It's lower than Zildjian but it's not darker.
Edit: actually the absolute lowest note (that's suprisingly low and often EQ'd out from recordings), that the Zildjian produced was lower than Paiste's, but usually we don't consider that to be the pitch of the cymbal.

2002's have relatively low profile, which gives them bit lower pitch but that shouldn't be confused with warmth.
This 2002 crash has the typical Paiste high end whistle, this piercing note at above 10 Hz or what ever that frequency is. It's most apparent in the after ring, when the body of the sound has decayed but the high end keeps ringing. But I'm sure that not all hear that because it's extremely high frequencies we talking here, and they disappear from our hearing range first with damage and/or age.
In any case, there's more high end in the 2002, at least to me it's pretty obvious that it sounds colder.

The Zildjian is still somewhat warmer even when it's from particulary cold sounding K hybrid line with big and heavy bell (that emphasizes the high end).

Thank you for posting this!
 
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JimmySticks

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I checked the typical weights for both models and this is a good comparison since both are usually around 1450 gr in 18" size.

The 2002 has lower fundamental note and that might be confusing. It's lower than Zildjian but it's not darker. 2002's have relatively low profile, which gives them bit lower pitch but that shouldn't be confused with warmth.
This 2002 crash has the typical Paiste high end whistle, this piercing note at above 10 Hz or what ever that frequency is. It's most apparent in the after ring, when the body of the sound has decayed but the high end keeps ringing. But I'm sure that not all hear that because it's extremely high frequencies we talking here, and they disappear from our hearing range first with damage and/or age.
In any case, there's more high end in the 2002, at least to me it's pretty obvious that it sounds colder.

The Zildjian is still somewhat warmer even when it's from particulary cold sounding K hybrid line with heavy bell (that emphasizes the high end).

Thank you for posting this!
Man, I wish I had your hearing Mark!

Although, maybe I’m lucky I don’t, I would drive myself to crazy with small sound nuances!
 

RIDDIM

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It doesn’t seem so, but I think he would still associate them with the worst music ever made.
I had one really nice 602 20" flat ride thin that was doing the the glassy flat ride thing without being too glassy. Ended up selling it to a jazz drummer who really wanted it, and since I wasn't really using it, I decided to give it a better home. Also I got double compared what i had paid for it in the late 90's.

Otherwise I feel that Paiste has way too bright and harsh sound to my taste, I find most of them painfully bright. I want to add that I have pretty sharp hearing all the way to high spectrum, and no hearing damage. But I'm also aware that people's hearings are quite different EQ-wise and need for high end from cymbals is quite individual. So, if you like Paiste Signatures etc, I can sort understand that too.

Some of the thinner Paiste Masters rides are also ok in my book, although I have only heard them on videos.
- Check out a 21" Masters Dark Dry if you can find one, or a 22" Dark Crisp. Those are great for straight ahead and have believable bells and definition for electric music.
 

ThomFloor

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When we have already made up our minds, like I used to do, that a particular cymbal will be x and this other cymbal over here will be y, we often can deceive ourselves. In this demo of two identically sized crashes, unless the audio has been altered somehow, reveals a B8 cymbal sounding darker than a B20. I've heard the question whether it's "OK" to mix 2002s with K Zildjians, and some would say no, they are too different alloys and too different sounding to mix well together. We've been conditioned to believe the 2002 will be the brighter cymbal and the K darker, but that isn't always true. My ears may be different from others and we can hear things differently, but this video proves to me that we have to compare side by side before we can make a judgment on "shimmer", "pitch", "harshness" , "volume" or whatever.

Great video. Your point well made, because as soon as I heard those two, my ears hear the 2002 as slightly brighter, higher pitched. Our ears are very individual and do hear things very differently.
 

stuart s

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When we have already made up our minds, like I used to do, that a particular cymbal will be x and this other cymbal over here will be y, we often can deceive ourselves. In this demo of two identically sized crashes, unless the audio has been altered somehow, reveals a B8 cymbal sounding darker than a B20. I've heard the question whether it's "OK" to mix 2002s with K Zildjians, and some would say no, they are too different alloys and too different sounding to mix well together. We've been conditioned to believe the 2002 will be the brighter cymbal and the K darker, but that isn't always true. My ears may be different from others and we can hear things differently, but this video proves to me that we have to compare side by side before we can make a judgment on "shimmer", "pitch", "harshness" , "volume" or whatever.

You are hearing a bias from the room, mics, end user speakers, listen to them in person and the 2002 will appear to be way brighter if you can hear up to 13khz.

With those restrictions, the 2002 sounds more clangy, which I think most non paiste fans observe, the audience wont notice the player might.
 

Burps

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Great video. Your point well made, because as soon as I heard those two, my ears hear the 2002 as slightly brighter, higher pitched. Our ears are very individual and do hear things very differently.
That is a fascinating part about cymbals. Because there are many frequencies in a crash cymbal, we might hear different “dominant” frequencies differently. It could be the speakers we’re using to listen to the demo that might influence our perception too.

I do believe that the 2002 has a higher overtone that lasts a bit longer than the K. But I hear the main/dominant basic pitch of the 2002 as lower. The bells, being less washy and clearer, I hear the 2002 bell as clearly lower than the K. But maybe if I listen on different speakers I might think differently.

Edit:

I went back and listened again to the demo today and I'm hearing it the opposite to how I heard it yesterday. Weird!
 
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