Anybody Ride a 20" Crash for Quieter Tunes?

JDA

DFO Star
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
25,338
Reaction score
14,236
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
even Zildjian can't demonstrate a cymbal without going into full foo fighter mode


but these 1600-1700g K Light flats 20" are -in person- nice..
 

GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
307
Reaction score
409
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I like the Bounce rides, also. I have two 20" Bounces, and they are hugely different from one another (as are many K Cons) so make sure you listen / play before buying if the cymbal appeals to you.

The lighter one is 1706g, has a nice full crash and a huge, roaring wash, but not so much that the stick definition gets lost. The other is 1984g, has a more uneventful crash and much more subdued wash, but is nicely bright with a solid woody ping and can get trashy if you play it that way - very much vintage K sounding in many ways.
Sounds like ours are similar at that lighter weight, though I would say that mine also has a bit of that trashy quality which you described in your heavier bounce ride.

Now, I can only speak for myself and would never advocate someone drilling their expensive cymbals without the knowledge, ability and tools to do so. However, I would add that drilling for two rivets has made the cymbal even more lush and atmospheric than it already was. I used it for the first time with my 5 piece electric band, and every one of them was raving about the sound.

Now debating whether to rivet the 19" Avedis as well for a very different sound....
 

GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
307
Reaction score
409
Location
Toronto, Ontario
even Zildjian can't demonstrate a cymbal without going into full foo fighter mode


but these 1600-1700g K Light flats 20" are -in person- nice..
It does sound a bit more crashable than most flats I've heard, perhaps that determined the demo direction. Would be nice to hear a bit of more detailed and swung sticking though.
 

tbird8450

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
195
Reaction score
231
If Zildjian sold cymbals based strictly off of their Sound Lab videos, they'd be out of business.

Sounds like ours are similar at that lighter weight, though I would say that mine also has a bit of that trashy quality which you described in your heavier bounce ride.

Now, I can only speak for myself and would never advocate someone drilling their expensive cymbals without the knowledge, ability and tools to do so. However, I would add that drilling for two rivets has made the cymbal even more lush and atmospheric than it already was. I used it for the first time with my 5 piece electric band, and every one of them was raving about the sound.

Now debating whether to rivet the 19" Avedis as well for a very different sound....
I don't feel the need for rivets on either Bounce, to me they are just about perfect as is for their respective uses. However, I did add three rivets to a 20" Avedis and they livened up the cymbal beautifully.
 

WLVN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
Messages
161
Reaction score
202
Location
Houston, TX
Here is a nice demo with a lot of ride patterns on a 20" Paiste Rude Thin Crash.
I bought a 19" and a 20" several years ago and was surprised to find them to be quite versatile.
 

mfk252

Active Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
36
Reaction score
27
How about a 20" UFIP Natural crash? I use one as a ride and crash. Over the years the ride has become drier and does not sound like a crash/ride.
I also use an 18" of the identical model which can do the same thing.
 

marc3k

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2020
Messages
403
Reaction score
351
you mean like "Whiter Shade of Pale"
yes.

Have you tried. A standard no ink older A drilled for 6,7 or 8 rivets; 20"; around 1956g to 2067g's?
On the lighter side but still -what was once- a medium-light Medium ride..
Back lot of ebay they hide sometimes for barely a song. Seller not real knowledgeable, Just have to keep eyes on until one pops up.
I have two (at the above weight)A's, have had for ages; even before I get into my other thin Rides (2 old K 20s, and a Bos Thin Ride)
2009g, 1987g and 1934g. Rides all.

You can do it with a 22 too (maple stick and push the wash out) gently caress but firm like a..
Man that's interesting! Would you say that's the kind of cymbal that was used in whiter shade of pale? When I started drumming I played along to that song often, wondering why my Paiste PST7 ride does not sound the same...
I know the recording does have a huge effect on the sound - there are many "remastered" versions floating around which to me sound way too clean and lack that "dirt"...

 

JDA

DFO Star
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
25,338
Reaction score
14,236
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
Man that's interesting! Would you say that's the kind of cymbal that was used in whiter shade of pale?
I intially read Old Drummers Post "wrong"... then later understood it "better" lol
so 50/50 yea
 

Seb77

DFO Master
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
3,479
Reaction score
2,128
Location
Germany
For anyone willing to throw down the cash, just to get done with the hunt, this is where it's at for me. I have a very similar one already, otherwise I might be all over this one:
 

tbird8450

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
195
Reaction score
231
That's nice...sounds an awful lot like my 20" Avedis sans rivets, which funnily enough is also 1884 grams.
 

Old Drummer

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
851
Reaction score
792
Crashes are meant to produce the whole range of (high) overtones. This is usually acheived by a larger, high bell. For a ride sound, the higher overtones need to be more subdued, that's why dedicated rides usually have a flatter, sometimes smaller diameter bell.

Billy Hart to my ear has one of the nicest washy/crash ride sounds, check him out - is this the kind of sound you are looking for?

I would god for a light K-type ride cymbal, 20" max.1900g. Zildjian EAK Light ride, Pre-Aged Dry Light, KCon, Sabian Manhattan/Artisan, Paiste Trad./Masters. Maybe something Turkish as well, Agop Mel etc., but these can be hit-and-miss and sometimes have too much high-end wash.

edit: looks like an Istanbul main ride here (bottom logo):
One of the puzzles to me is how crashes sometimes seem to have low overtones and woody stick sounds despite being designed to achieve the opposite.

Yeah, Billy Hart has a fabulous washy ride, though that's not really what I'm looking for. My ears (which are frequently misleading) tell me that the ride at the start of the second video is different from the one I hear in the bulk of the first. As for what the main ride is, it's hard to tell. He's got so many that they overlap. I think the main ride in the first video is a Zildjian, with an Istanbul right next to it, and in the second video the ride placements are reversed. But I could be way off.
 

Old Drummer

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
851
Reaction score
792
even Zildjian can't demonstrate a cymbal without going into full foo fighter mode


but these 1600-1700g K Light flats 20" are -in person- nice..
At least the demo drummer isn't playing the bell 80% of the time. Ha, I think farm league for demo drummers should be flat rides to force them to play the cymbal instead of the bell.
 

Old Drummer

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
851
Reaction score
792
Has 3 rivets, thin and crashes well with rivets

I'm one of your Reverb watchers, although I saw your listing here too. For me, the rivets detract, but for other prospective buyers, they might enhance. In my case, I've pretty much decided to try another kind of cymbal first, though the Vanguards are appealing enough for me to, well, watch them.

BTW, my hat's off to you for tricking Reverb into sending watchers like me an email saying you've lowered the price. In reality, you raised it by $2 by adding a shipping fee. This is pretty slick.
 

Old Drummer

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
851
Reaction score
792
How about a flat ride? Nice stick sound and great for quieter tunes -


Ah, the flat rides . . . I had one once, never warmed to it, and probably don't want one again. Many (such as the ones posted) do give a nice stick sound, but not much crash or anything else, IMHO. I guess I want more versatility, although sometimes the stick sound is nice.
 

Jonnymac

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2020
Messages
88
Reaction score
65
I recently recorded an 18 K Dark Thin as both the ride and crash, the lone cymbal, and it turned out way better than the 20 k custom dark ride pass. “Ride” cymbals are weird like that. I also really like the 19 Kerope cymbal as a ride for recording. Live is different and conditional.
 

Old Drummer

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
851
Reaction score
792
I bought a used 20" Zildjian K Custom Dry Ride that's got a great ping, and little wash. Just what I was missing.
One of my favorites from sound files is the K Custom Dry Light Ride. That appeals to me more than the heavier one. However, I'm hesitant to buy anything dry (which seems to me to include most of the "Turk" cymbals) because I fear that all ping and no wash may be limiting in the long run. Gotta admit that many of them have a nice stick sound though.
 

cruddola

Very well Known Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
937
Reaction score
903
Location
usa
My search for a ride with a woody stick sound to use for some kinds of quieter songs has been very frustrating. I just can't find the sound I want.

Recently, albeit only based sound files, I've been attracted to some lighter 20" crash/rides weighing in around 1600 grams. Some of those seem like they might give me the sound I'm looking for.

Then on a lark, I listened to some 20" cymbals labeled crashes about this weight and was shocked that the so-called crash cymbals seem more apt to give me the ride sound I seek than the cymbals labeled either ride or crash/ride.

Of course, sound files are a lousy way to assess cymbals, and they're especially bad for assessing cymbals labeled crash used as rides. The demo drummers do a lot of crashing of these cymbals (duh), and when they "ride" them, they are usually simultaneously crashing them. Well, I understand this, and it's one fun way to play a crash cymbal, but I'm more interested in the pure, quiet, stick sound of a soft ride pattern. The demo drummers rarely play crash cymbals as rides for more than a few seconds, but those few seconds sometimes appeal to me.

Does anybody use a 20" crash as a quiet ride for something like I'm describing? Oh, as for 20", I'm not married to it, but the sound files make me think that 20" might be a good size for a crash used as a ride.

(Of course, I'd also crash it, but that's not the main feature I'm looking for.)
I bought a used 20-inch Zildjian marked 'Rock Crash' cymbal at Guitar Center up in Phoenix (where the Devil shops). It is absolutely one of the best long-distance light-ride cymbals in my arsenal and at 2200+ grams! You could ride that plate for years without it washing. Mighty bright sound. It was the furthest thing from a crash. Bastard had to be mine! I have it sitting on a Tour Custom kit at my sister's house in Wisconsin.
 

Old Drummer

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
851
Reaction score
792
For anyone willing to throw down the cash, just to get done with the hunt, this is where it's at for me. I have a very similar one already, otherwise I might be all over this one:
Interesting. I confess that I don't especially like this cymbal. Oh, it's OK, but it's not a cymbal I would want. Maybe this is because I played a cymbal like this back in the day and got tired of it.

When I was a kid, my mom periodically made casseroles. They were OK, but I guess I never liked them well enough to make one as an adult. Lo and behold, when my kid visited her grandmother and had a casserole, she loved it.

Maybe these old A Zildjians are like casseroles.
 


Top