Anyone else using two rides on live gigs?

multijd

Very well Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
Messages
887
Reaction score
222
Location
Buffalo, NY
Easier question to answer would have been " Who Doesn't" use (play) two rides

Buddy, Elvin, Tony
Elvin? Wait a minute. Where is that Modern Drummer article ( very early) where he talks about switching his cymbals so they each can play lead? Ill get back to you....
 

JDA

DFO Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
11,625
Reaction score
1,384
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
Elvin? Wait a minute. Where is that Modern Drummer article ( very early) where he talks about switching his cymbals so they each can play lead? Ill get back to you....
Yes I have the article. Point was used rides greater than 2. No dedicated Crash
 
Last edited:

multijd

Very well Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
Messages
887
Reaction score
222
Location
Buffalo, NY
Yes I have the article. Point was used rides greater than 2. No dedicated Crash
I thought Buddy only used one ride and Tony from the big yellow kit on only seemed to use one.
 

JDA

DFO Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
11,625
Reaction score
1,384
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
.. what I meant by including Elvin in the "one-ride" category. Yes all his cymbals were rides, but he rarely turned his body, and rode (for very long) on either the left or far right cymbal/position/ - mostly stuck -one ride motion- to his center right cymbal- within the grouping Same as Tony same as Buddy- majorly one ride position riders -for riding.
yes, Elvin used Ride specific cymbals around his main ride. but didn't ride them for any sustained period of time -rarely.
Whereas for example, say a Mel, would stay left and ride thru- a chorus or three or- behind a solo or four,

So Elvin went into my one ride category (irregardless of what was up there) based on his body motion, his approach, he stuck/stayed in (the one-ride) spot. He imo was a one-rider. Like Tony . Like Buddy.
with minor exceptions) Elvin either rode the hi hats or that 2' oclock cymbal (position..

Elvin rotated the cymbals (as he said in that article) He didn't rotate his body. Or follow a cymbal around.
Ride position was 2'o clock ) locked in. Mostly.
Single-minded driven-drummers- tough guys; )EJ, Tw Br.
 
Last edited:

Old Drummer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
158
Reaction score
69
I only put up two cymbals at live gigs, and both are rides, depending on the venue.
If it's a bigger club or hall or outdoors and I'm with my 4 or 5 piece rock/roots bands: 20 K medium ride on my right. Nice stick definition and ping that zings in a higher note on the upper atmosphere of the mix; on my left a 20 K Pre-Aged Dry Light that crashes well and rides more subtly on passages that require more butter.
For my my singer-oriented trio with piano and guitar, I use a K Custom Dark Ride on my left and a 60's 20 A Medium Ride on my right with 4 rivets. This particular K Custom Dark is quite low in it's sound. It's covered in something, perhaps by forced patina by the prior owner. Since I'm not hitting punches much with the trio, the medium A with rivets is really nice for a emotive crash that holds it's note longer with a happy bacon in the pan decay. I don't hit it for explosions as much as for an "Amen" from the congregation of my kit. Riding on the A with rivets is just articulate enough, but with that sizzle that reminds me of the sound of old vinyl Neil Young records.
I'm curious about the A medium ride with rivets you use with a singer-oriented trio. Isn't that cymbal too loud for that use? I guess it isn't since you use it, but off the top of my head I'd think that any of your other rides would be better suited.
 

CC Cirillo

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
6
I'm curious about the A medium ride with rivets you use with a singer-oriented trio. Isn't that cymbal too loud for that use? I guess it isn't since you use it, but off the top of my head I'd think that any of your other rides would be better suited.
Well, I think you’re right. I said A Medium, and that would be a heavier cymbal, and pulling it out of the cymbal bag just now I’m not sure what it is. It’s an A, but it’s old and with no markings. It’s about 2000 grams, and with that gig I’m not hitting hard, so it works. And it keeps me well behaved.
 

multijd

Very well Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
Messages
887
Reaction score
222
Location
Buffalo, NY
.. what I meant by including Elvin in the "one-ride" category. Yes all his cymbals were rides, but he rarely turned his body, and rode (for very long) on either the left or far right cymbal/position/ - mostly stuck -one ride motion- to his center right cymbal- within the grouping Same as Tony same as Buddy- majorly one ride position riders -for riding.
yes, Elvin used Ride specific cymbals around his main ride. but didn't ride them for any sustained period of time -rarely.
Whereas for example, say a Mel, would stay left and ride thru- a chorus or three or- behind a solo or four,

So Elvin went into my one ride category (irregardless of what was up there) based on his body motion, his approach, he stuck/stayed in (the one-ride) spot. He imo was a one-rider. Like Tony . Like Buddy.
with minor exceptions) Elvin either rode the hi hats or that 2' oclock cymbal (position..

Elvin rotated the cymbals (as he said in that article) He didn't rotate his body. Or follow a cymbal around.
Ride position was 2'o clock ) locked in. Mostly.
Single-minded driven-drummers- tough guys; )EJ, Tw Br.
Good explanation! Thanks for clearing that up! Should we start a separate thread about drummers who actually have a two ride concept?
 

Old Drummer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
158
Reaction score
69
Well, I think you’re right. I said A Medium, and that would be a heavier cymbal, and pulling it out of the cymbal bag just now I’m not sure what it is. It’s an A, but it’s old and with no markings. It’s about 2000 grams, and with that gig I’m not hitting hard, so it works. And it keeps me well behaved.
I'm far from an expert but 2000 grams makes some sense to me. Like you, perhaps, I played a 20" old A for years without ever weighing it. In retrospect I'd guess it was medium-heavy. I currently have an old 18" A that is medium-heavy, and it's a loud cymbal. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that I've ever tried a lighter old A (well, except for hats, but that's different) and should put that on my bucket list. The lighter ones are in higher demand than the heavier ones; maybe buyers are onto something.
 

CC Cirillo

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
6
I'm far from an expert but 2000 grams makes some sense to me. Like you, perhaps, I played a 20" old A for years without ever weighing it. In retrospect I'd guess it was medium-heavy. I currently have an old 18" A that is medium-heavy, and it's a loud cymbal. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that I've ever tried a lighter old A (well, except for hats, but that's different) and should put that on my bucket list. The lighter ones are in higher demand than the heavier ones; maybe buyers are onto something.
I'm far from an expert but 2000 grams makes some sense to me. Like you, perhaps, I played a 20" old A for years without ever weighing it. In retrospect I'd guess it was medium-heavy. I currently have an old 18" A that is medium-heavy, and it's a loud cymbal. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that I've ever tried a lighter old A (well, except for hats, but that's different) and should put that on my bucket list. The lighter ones are in higher demand than the heavier ones; maybe buyers are onto something.
The yardstick in my ear is based on the A ride I had as a teenager. Long since stolen, but I can still hear it. Never really liked it. Seemed too brash. I think it was an A Medium. Back then I had no Youtube or Forum to educate me, so I thought that's how a cymbal was supposed to sound. It was a 20 inch Zildjian A ride and didn't Buddy played a 20 inch Zildjian A ride?...so I guess I would just have to learn to play better to get it to sound good.
Fast forward: When this one came along, I knew it was lighter than the old one I had as a teen, and I like the sound. Sort of weighed it with my ears. Odd that this would be my measurement system when approaching buying a cymbal now: "Well, it doesn't sound like that old one I had which I didn't like...so that's one thing it has going in it's favor...."
 

JDA

DFO Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
11,625
Reaction score
1,384
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
I see drummers up there with one ride and a million crashes. But you don't need the crashes. The ride is where your thing is coming from. You can crash any cymbal it needn't be a dedicated purpose built crash cymbal.

Many misunderstood that Mel quote. He was saying use Ride Cymbals to crash . Not crash cymbals.

It's still hard to get thru.
He didn't mean to 'ride crash cymbals'. Everyone knows how funny - basically useless in a jazz setting- riding thin crash and medium-thin Crashes- can sound.
He meant a crash can be executed (and plenty well done) on a build specific medium ride cymbal .

I
 
Last edited:

Old Drummer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
158
Reaction score
69
The yardstick in my ear is based on the A ride I had as a teenager. Long since stolen, but I can still hear it. Never really liked it. Seemed too brash. I think it was an A Medium. Back then I had no Youtube or Forum to educate me, so I thought that's how a cymbal was supposed to sound. It was a 20 inch Zildjian A ride and didn't Buddy played a 20 inch Zildjian A ride?...so I guess I would just have to learn to play better to get it to sound good.
Fast forward: When this one came along, I knew it was lighter than the old one I had as a teen, and I like the sound. Sort of weighed it with my ears. Odd that this would be my measurement system when approaching buying a cymbal now: "Well, it doesn't sound like that old one I had which I didn't like...so that's one thing it has going in it's favor...."
Our experiences with and reactions to old A rides seem similar. I too bought my A ride simply because every drummer I knew or knew of played one. It didn't occur to me that there were differences among the A's or other good cymbals to choose from. Thus, even though I never really liked my old A (brash is a good description) I just adjusted to it on the assumption that I had "the best" and there wasn't a better option.

Over the years as more and more quality cymbals were introduced, I began to try them. By then, though, I was so used to my old A that it was always my benchmark. I couldn't depart too far from its sound and remain comfortable, but sought a less annoying cymbal at the same time. Most recently I've tentatively settled on the Agop Traditional Medium, but chuckle over my rationale for preferring it. It is that the Agop reminds me of my old A without being as annoying.

Probably whatever ride a drummer starts with has a similar influence over their lifelong cymbal preferences. My original A sure influences my preferences. I look for a similar but less annoying version of the same cymbal.
 

Seb77

Very well Known Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,384
Reaction score
131
Location
Germany
Everyone knows how funny - basically useless in a jazz setting- riding thin crash and medium-thin Crashes- can sound.
Well, unless you got a cymbal that say crash but actaully works as a ride as well. Seems like a matter of tension/hammering. K-type cymbals seem to be more suited for this. I am using an 18" 12..g k custom dark crash to ride on on the left at the moment.
In the 70s, Mel used a very washy cymbal on the left, you can hear it in the Munich videos. That's actually less defined rhythmically than what I like.
 

mkelley

DFO Veteran
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
1,529
Reaction score
104
Location
Chattanooga, TN
Depends. Every cymbal is used however it needs to be used in the song. I ride on crashes and crash rides, the ink is merely the manufacturers' suggestion.
 

JDA

DFO Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
11,625
Reaction score
1,384
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
Well, unless you got a cymbal that say crash but actaully works as a ride as well.
That's not common; maybe in some Italians, some Chinese' ...not found it in AK Zildjian- when they say "crash" . medium-thin or thin. Same with Bosphorus, when it says crash- it's a crash.

Have to move up to Crash-Ride more often than not.
Crash many many of the times, not stable, enough, to qualify as a ride
many; short sustain, not enough, to tie two notes together (well.

Crash is least type of cymbal I own, on purpose ( I hate em ; )
 
Last edited:

JDA

DFO Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
11,625
Reaction score
1,384
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
What call ? ; ) they Crash too much for me to Ride on. Unless they don't. But modern makes in most recent times don't like to mislead their clientele . They buy a crash to expect a crash. They don't want it being a Ride. Or else it be marked Thin Ride. Thinking of Bosphorus. (excellent..excellent.. 'Antique' Thin Rides) I never 'did' like the riding- the tipping- on AK crashes, . True 18"-19" Ride has the goods. I dislike Crash cymbals unless they're 15" splashes or less.

https://soundcloud.com/jda56%2Fridetwocrashride
 
Last edited:

Seb77

Very well Known Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,384
Reaction score
131
Location
Germany
That's not common; maybe in some Italians, some Chinese' ...not found it in AK Zildjian- when they say "crash" . medium-thin or thin. Same with Bosphorus, when it says crash- it's a crash.

Have to move up to Crash-Ride more often than not.
Crash many many of the times, not stable, enough, to qualify as a ride
many; short sustain, not enough, to tie two notes together
Washy maybe, but too short? Unless we're talking unlathed cymbals, I hear enough sustain with most crashes for an occasional ride sound. Agreed, for slow tempos, I prefer a larger cymbal, for louder playing as well.

Listen to the earlier Mel recordings like Art Pepper&Eleven, on the bridge of "Move", it's a 16" crash he rides on, makes it work. You can hear it crashed in the middle of the first sax chorus, and then most notably in the trumpet solo.
 

Latest posts



Top