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Are High-End Drums a Giant Waste of Money?

Houndog

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UNDERSTAND my point....
In terms of demanding endorsement deals - the musician must demonstrate they have something to offer the manufacturer. In the past that was notoriety through popular albums, well attended live shows. In the past 10-15 years add in an active and well supported social media presence.
You won't be treated 'seriously' if you just think you are good, with no independent evidence to back it up.
Demanded ???
We don’t know how that deal happened??
 

Whitten

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I know lots of guys making a living with music that no one has ever heard of ..
Are they getting endorsements, because the idea of being given free stuff, or discounted stuff as that it will be noticed. So if you are someone 'no one has ever heard of', it is highly unlikely you'll be offered a free or discounted drum kit.
 

Whitten

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Demanded ???
We don’t know
You are ENTIRELY missing my point.
Have you seen his website?
The 'bio' page has virtually nothing on it. Not the best way to ask for an endorsement deal.
It's not my opinion or prejudice, it's just a business reality.
According to the drum company, he wanted the drums free, and wouldn't accept 50% discount. Yes, we just don't know, but you don't make the terms if you don't have much of anything to offer in return.
 

Houndog

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My issue is you saying “ demanded “
You make it sound like he called up an d demanded an endorsement….
 

Whitten

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My issue is you saying “ demanded “
You make it sound like he called up an d demanded and endorsement….
It's just a word. neither you or I know.
My point was *entirely* that you need a significant following even to get discounted gear in 2022. That following is either on social media (usually Youtube, maybe Tik-Tok), or on tour playing to quite large audiences, or you've played on a few notable records. Hardly anyone if anyone, is getting free drum kits, even less so from small boutique companies for whom every penny counts.
That's just the reality.
 

Houndog

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It's just a word. neither you or I know.
My point was *entirely* that you need a significant following even to get discounted gear in 2022. That following is either on social media (usually Youtube, maybe Tik-Tok), or on tour playing to quite large audiences, or you've played on a few notable records. Hardly anyone if anyone, is getting free drum kits, even less so from small boutique companies for whom every penny counts.
That's just the reality.
Words are not just words , they have meaning you should know this …
 

Whitten

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Oh brother...
You are completely missing the main point and obsessing about 'serious musician'.
Yeah, you know what, if your calling card is your website and on your website you only say you are a musician/educator, with no other credits, PLUS your Youtube channel has 9 subscribers and your video views are around 40.....yeah, you won't be considered 'a serious working musician' by any company you approach for an endorsement.
It's really not that hard to understand.
 

Whitten

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He seems like a fantastic drummer, but he says on his website he endorses Trick, he's playing Sonor in his latest Youtube video and nowhere does he credit the drum company or mention them.
This is all stuff that is endorsing 101.
Use the gear you endorse, thank the company for their great drums (cymbals, sticks etc), include a link to the drum company website etc....
 

Houndog

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Oh brother...
You are completely missing the main point and obsessing about 'serious musician'.
Yeah, you know what, if your calling card is your website and on your website you only say you are a musician/educator, with no other credits, PLUS your Youtube channel has 9 subscribers and your video views are around 40.....yeah, you won't be considered 'a serious working musician' by any company you approach for an endorsement.
It's really not that hard to understand.
If you make a living in the industry you are a serious musician, getting an endorsement is another subject ….
And using the word “ demanded “ is ridiculous you have no idea how that deal happened…

Demanded is a pretty strong word is it not .?
 

Houndog

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He seems like a fantastic drummer, but he says on his website he endorses Trick, he's playing Sonor in his latest Youtube video and nowhere does he credit the drum company or mention them.
This is all stuff that is endorsing 101.
Use the gear you endorse, thank the company for their great drums (cymbals, sticks etc), include a link to the drum company website etc....
He seems like a fantastic drummer, but he says on his website he endorses Trick, he's playing Sonor in his latest Youtube video and nowhere does he credit the drum company or mention them.
This is all stuff that is endorsing 101.
Use the gear you endorse, thank the company for their great drums (cymbals, sticks etc), include a link to the drum company website etc....
None of this is part of my points , again that’s a different discussion
 

Whitten

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Yeah, because you replied to my point, so I'm repeating my point.
You disliked 'serious musician'. I pointed out that no one got an endorsement deal by being a serious musician no one had ever heard of.
You can obviously be a silly, hopeless musician, but if you sell out football stadiums you'll find you have great power when it comes to endorsing.
The conversation was about
But he wanted to keep the drums for free, and was upset that I wanted to still have some money for them (As I recall we offered him a 50% deal).
That was what I was replying to.
A very few 'serious' drummers could ask for free drums, just about everyone endorsing is getting a discount deal.
 

Whitten

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If you make a living in the industry you are a serious musician, getting an endorsement is another subject ….
Whatever, but I was specifically replying to a post about an endorsement that fell through. That IS the point.
 

Houndog

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It was the discussion I was posting in, so no.
But you insist that “ I “ miss your point when you are talking about what someone else posted , which in fact we don’t know if that is true now do we ?
 

Houndog

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I just stated that you didn’t have to be attached to a popular artist or record to be considered serious , it had nothing to with Noah at that point , rather it had to do with your comment ….
The other point I made that you seem to be missing is your use of the word “ demanded”
 

Whitten

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I looked at his bio page and all it said was what he does (Musician, Educator), no mention of any notable band or recordings. So on the face of it it seems he's more of a social media, YouTuber guy trying to get ahead, than a serious working musician.
All of the above was in direct response to a claim the drummer wouldn't accept a 50% discount and wanted free drums. that is 100% the context!
No, you are considered 'serious' by the gear industry if you have a sizeable social media following, have played on some hit records, or at least critically acclaimed, are a member of a band with a sizeable following, playing live shows showcasing the gear you've endorsed. The person in question seems to have 9 Youtube subscribers and 40 people watch their videos.
Yes, FFS, you can be a serious musician in your own bedroom, practising 18 hours a day, and no one has ever heard of you. In the context of a drummer asking for free drums and turning down a 50% discount, you can't be a serious bedroom drummer, no one has ever heard of.
Now I've explained my point numerous different ways.
 

Whitten

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I just stated that you didn’t have to be attached to a popular artist or record to be considered serious ,

In the context of endorsing YOU DO.

The other point I made that you seem to be missing is your use of the word “ demanded”
I may have misspoke, it isn't a court of law. But how would you characterise a small drum company offering a 50% discount and the endorser saying it had to be free? Most people would absolutely jump at 50% off, most endorsements are 25-30% discount.
To me it's an unreasonable 'demand'.
 

Houndog

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In the context of endorsing YOU DO.
I may have misspoke, it isn't a court of law. But how would you characterise a small drum company offering a 50% discount and the endorser saying it had to be free? Most people would absolutely jump at 50% off, most endorsements are 25-30% discount.
To me it's an unreasonable 'demand'.
We don’t know if that is true though , as you stated it was very unprofessional to divulge those details .
Noah isn’t here to give his side of the story …

I assumed you weren’t making points based on heresay
 

Houndog

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I had moved on from the “ endorsement “ part of convo ..
My 1st point was you seemed to determining what it was to be a “ serious “ musician. I had left the endorsement part out of the equation.
That’s what I have issue with .

Then you assumed he “ demanded “ an endorsement..

That’s where I’m coming from ..
 

T_Weaves

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I endorsed N&C in the late 80's. One of the major considerations was what would happen if a shell was dropped and damaged in Japan, or Australia. I decided to go with it anyway. But one of the main reasons pro drummers go with mainstream drum companies is that they offer, swift and international support.
I'm not really down with Pearl or DW but I think what you're saying here describes them to a T.
 


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