Are there any video's or sound files showing the sound difference between a 45 and 30 degree bearing

PerfectImposter

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
470
Reaction score
33
Location
Canada
That paper was written by a student, and the fact that the shells were different weights is a huge deal, and in my opinion invalidates the results. His conclusion is also that his results are inconclusive.
 

ThomFloor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2017
Messages
450
Reaction score
155
PerfectImposter said:
That paper was written by a student, and the fact that the shells were different weights is a huge deal, and in my opinion invalidates the results. His conclusion is also that his results are inconclusive.
The great majority of research in universities is done by students. Not sure why that matters. The total mass of the 3 different shells+rims differed by less than only 4%. The round-over has to make a difference (more head contact), but whether a one ear could hear it (I too doubt that) is obscured by the harmonics anyway (as was the case of this study)
 

JCKOriollo

DFO Master
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
5,116
Reaction score
226
Its more than just sound. One of the biggest differences in edges is feel and that affects playability. It has to be considered when talking about the difference in edges.
 

PerfectImposter

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
470
Reaction score
33
Location
Canada
ThomFloor said:
That paper was written by a student, and the fact that the shells were different weights is a huge deal, and in my opinion invalidates the results. His conclusion is also that his results are inconclusive.
The great majority of research in universities is done by students. Not sure why that matters. The total mass of the 3 different shells+rims differed by less than only 4%. The round-over has to make a difference (more head contact), but whether a one ear could hear it (I too doubt that) is obscured by the harmonics anyway (as was the case of this study)
By masters and PhD students, this paper was written by an undergrad. In any event, his conclusion was that there was not really much difference. Also, according to his table the heaviest shell was more than 10% heavier than the lightest, and the same can be said for the rims. We all know how much difference heavier rims can make to a drum, so when youre taking fine measurements like this a 10% weight difference is too much.

I would definitely agree that the amount of roundover will make a difference, as well as where on the shell the edge is cut (outside, middle or inside).
 

W&A Player

DFO Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
8,350
Reaction score
687
Location
Texas
Hanover Fiste said:
There is no difference. Once the bearing edge isn't in contact with the head, the angle at which it departs can't possibly make a difference to the sohnd of a drum. The outside profile/amount of round-over is the important part.
Logically, I agree but practically I don't agree. The reason it matters is because the inside angle cut determines the amount of mass of the outside profile. If you take a two identical shells and cut a 45 on one and a 30 on the other, the 30 outside profile will have more mass.
Ok, let's take 2 identical drums, one with a 30 inside cut and the other with a 45 cut, and you can do a blindfolded A/B test to see how much difference to the sound of a drum a few grams makes. The slight inconsistencies between drumheads and the mass and grain structure of the shells would almost certainly trump the effect of a tiny bit more/less wood on the bearing edges.



Yep! You said what i was trying to say.
 

mtarrani

DFO Master
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
8,603
Reaction score
390
Location
Deltona, FL
PerfectImposter said:
That paper was written by a student, and the fact that the shells were different weights is a huge deal, and in my opinion invalidates the results. His conclusion is also that his results are inconclusive.
I said it was worth reading, not definitive. Your mileage may vary.
 

Topsy Turvy

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
505
Reaction score
82
Location
United States
JCKLudwig said:
Its more than just sound. One of the biggest differences in edges is feel and that affects playability. It has to be considered when talking about the difference in edges.
Agreed. The ability to "dig in" to a drum is impacted by the edges.
 

MrDrums2112

"Normal" Drummer
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
4,287
Reaction score
329
Location
Tolland, CT
Drumstickdude said:
I could not tell any difference - they all sounded virtually the same to me, maybe tuned a little too high? The explanation sounded good though.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

W&A Player

DFO Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
8,350
Reaction score
687
Location
Texas
Your meticulously chosen drums and cymbals are going to sound like generic drums and cymbals to everyone but you at a live gig. Your drums will sound the way the recording engineer and record producer want them to sound in the recorded product. Your cymbals, over which you obsess, disappear from the recording mix. This is the way it works in the real world.This has not changed in at least the past fifty years.
 

swarfrat

tympanus laqueus XV
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
5,332
Reaction score
533
Cymbals disappear in the mix? Bwahaha. Certainly not in live sound.
 

Markkuliini

DFO Veteran
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
2,367
Reaction score
406
Location
Sweden/Finland
W&A Player said:
Your meticulously chosen drums and cymbals are going to sound like generic drums and cymbals to everyone but you at a live gig. Your drums will sound the way the recording engineer and record producer want them to sound in the recorded product. Your cymbals, over which you obsess, disappear from the recording mix. This is the way it works in the real world.This has not changed in at least the past fifty years.
So no point even sound good to yourself? :(
 

mtarrani

DFO Master
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
8,603
Reaction score
390
Location
Deltona, FL
W&A Player said:
Your meticulously chosen drums and cymbals are going to sound like generic drums and cymbals to everyone but you at a live gig. Your drums will sound the way the recording engineer and record producer want them to sound in the recorded product. Your cymbals, over which you obsess, disappear from the recording mix. This is the way it works in the real world.This has not changed in at least the past fifty years.
+1
 

rondrums51

rondrums51
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
9,705
Reaction score
906
Location
Southwest Florida
W&A Player said:
Your drums will sound the way the recording engineer and record producer want them to sound in the recorded product.
I can't tell you how many times I've been through this.

I did a jazz recording back in the 90's, and I was playing brushes on several tunes. The freaking engineer gated my snare! The left hand swish vanished, and it sounded I was playing with one brush in my right hand. I hollered at him, and he said the swish was making too much noise. My response to him shall be censored in the interest of civility. :occasion5:
 

Hop

DFO Veteran
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
1,797
Reaction score
313
Location
L.A., CA
Here's one from Guru...



... and one from Mapex...

 
Last edited by a moderator:

W&A Player

DFO Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
8,350
Reaction score
687
Location
Texas
Markkuliini said:
Your meticulously chosen drums and cymbals are going to sound like generic drums and cymbals to everyone but you at a live gig. Your drums will sound the way the recording engineer and record producer want them to sound in the recorded product. Your cymbals, over which you obsess, disappear from the recording mix. This is the way it works in the real world.This has not changed in at least the past fifty years.
So no point even sound good to yourself? :(
If you sound good to yourself, you'll likely play better. But, many recording engineers and record producers reduce your $5,000 DW set to sound like a cardboard box and a set of Tupperware.
 

Markkuliini

DFO Veteran
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
2,367
Reaction score
406
Location
Sweden/Finland
W&A Player said:
Your meticulously chosen drums and cymbals are going to sound like generic drums and cymbals to everyone but you at a live gig. Your drums will sound the way the recording engineer and record producer want them to sound in the recorded product. Your cymbals, over which you obsess, disappear from the recording mix. This is the way it works in the real world.This has not changed in at least the past fifty years.
So no point even sound good to yourself? :(
If you sound good to yourself, you'll likely play better. But, many recording engineers and record producers reduce your $5,000 DW set to sound like a cardboard box and a set of Tupperware.





The first point is exactly what I meant. :)
For the second point, I don't know what to say. That yes, there are good producers and bad producers? Every time I've been asked to go to studio, we have been dialing in the drum sounds and tested different snares before we start to record, so that their job would be as easy as possible, so they would NOT need to tweak the sound too much afterwards. Maybe you have been working with unprofessional engineers? I mean, they exist.
Same thing has happened me on many live gigs. Many mixing engineer has told me that better my kit sounds, less he/she has to mix anything and better it sounds out front. They don't want to try to "polish a turd". And on longer tours we have really talked a lot about how I could tweak the kit's natural sound so we achieve most natural and powerful end result.

Besides, there is hardly any recording business left anyways, so what happens to my sound in studio is very small point compared to how I hear my kit sound when I'm playing live. I play mostly to please myself, I'm my hardest critic and if I feel my sound sucks, I don't enjoy myself nearly as much.
I let engineers do their job, and if they suck, what can I do. I just show up with good sounding gear and enjoy myself. :) Simple as that!
 

Markkuliini

DFO Veteran
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
2,367
Reaction score
406
Location
Sweden/Finland
rondrums51 said:
Your drums will sound the way the recording engineer and record producer want them to sound in the recorded product.
I can't tell you how many times I've been through this.

I did a jazz recording back in the 90's, and I was playing brushes on several tunes. The freaking engineer gated my snare! The left hand swish vanished, and it sounded I was playing with one brush in my right hand. I hollered at him, and he said the swish was making too much noise. My response to him shall be censored in the interest of civility. :occasion5:
Producing and engineering acoustic jazz is pretty specialised job. He was clearly unprofessional, but who ever hired this guy didn't do background check, and did even bigger mistake.
 

Latest posts



Top