Asking for information and pricing help

Rockin' Billy

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Howdy everyone. Looking for some help on pricing this snare.

Awhile back I spoke w/a fellow forum member privately but sadly lost my notes. Story…

I bought this drum for I believe $500.00(or at least that much, could be a little more) from a forum member here.(I’m pretty sure. I apologize for my memory. 2 story fall has left me with some not so good residuals)

I had thought it was old/older but when taking it apart to clean not so. Stamped inside 22713 so maybe Feb. 27 2013.

Im thinking the throw off/butt plate/lugs/hoops were changed or upgraded.

Can anyone please educate me on this? I want to be fair in pricing and know as close to exactly what I have. Thank you kindly in advance.

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JazzDrumGuy

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Show me your butt....plate. COA or COB? Looks modern for sure and guessing 2010 to present. That is a vintage badge though (1964?). The grommet is also wrong for that badge. Any extra holes?

Are there any seams inside? There shouldn't be. Something is definitely odd here.....
 
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Rockin' Billy

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Show me your butt....plate. COA or COB? Looks modern for sure and guessing 2010 to present. That is a vintage badge though (1964?). The grommet is also wrong for that badge. Any extra holes?

Are there any seams inside? There shouldn't be. Something is definitely odd here.....
Thank you kindly for the reply! Yes, something definitely odd and that’s what I’m trying to figure out before selling as not to misrepresent the drum as it appears it had been to me.(or the possibility seller didn’t know…or did) Looks like somebody tried to make it look old. I may have been ‘taken’ or drum misrepresented.

The one stamp inside shows a 22713 which I thought was possibly for Feb. 27 2013. The badge led me to believe vintage, but after taking apart to clean the grommet looks ‘redone’ and you had posted it is wrong grommet. NO extra holes. Hopefully it’s still worth $500.00, if not one of life’s lessons I reckon.

I’ll put a magnet to it tonight and report back. I’ve also attached a picture of butt plate which I thought I had done.

Thank you kindly again.
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lossforgain

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I’ll put a magnet to it tonight and report back.
Sorry to tell you, but a magnet won't help. Whether the drum shell is chrome over brass or if it's chrome over aluminum, the magnet will not stick.

It seems to me to be a modern drum with a vintage badge put on it, since vintage shells would not have the stamping or sticker you show inside. Nor would they have that butt plate or those hoops/lugs. But then, I haven't really seen a chrome Supra with brass hardware on it very often anyway. Seems like maybe this drum was pieced together? If it's a brass shell, I think you're close to the 500 mark but maybe not all the way there -- and some of that value comes from the brass hardware upgrade and cast hoops.
 

Rotarded

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Sorry to tell you, but a magnet won't help. Whether the drum shell is chrome over brass or if it's chrome over aluminum, the magnet will not stick.
I'd still check it. That black and white sticker inside is something that I have never seen on a Supraphonic. This leads me to suspect that it could be a steel Rocker shell.
 

lossforgain

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I'd still check it. That black and white sticker inside is something that I have never seen on a Supraphonic. This leads me to suspect that it could be a steel Rocker shell.
Ooooh good point! Although, if it were a Rocker shell would it also have an extra hole at the strainer? I don't think Rockers generally used the 2.5" P-85 spacing, but I could be wrong. It's been a long time since I had one in my hands.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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I was also wondering about that white sticker. I've never seen it. However, I'm pretty sure the steel Rocker series is not made in North Carolina. Also the throw-off will have different hole spacing.

The butt plate is modern. I'm still thinking it's less than 10 years old. The drum looks nice. The Gold Hardware is an upgrade. The magnet test may or may not work but if it's brass, it will absolutely I have no attraction whatsoever. That's a modern shell because the old ones that were aluminum are pitted like crazy. You can take a lug off and try to scrape the whole to see if you see a yellow shell. Those those few marks you point out in the pictures don't lead me to believe it's a brass shell at this point.

As for value, still hard to tell. Can you find the ad or information on the seller that sold it to you?
 

Rockin' Billy

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Thank you kindly everyone for your help and input.

Magnet-no attraction. I think I actually did scrape/file in one of those holes to check, that’s why I have those pictures above with empty hole. Don’t believe there was any brass color. It is heavy but most likely because of the hoops.

I had looked awhile back to see if I could track the thread down, but no luck. I will try a more intensive search as soon as I get the time. I believe somebody on here contacted me that they had one when I was looking around. Hopefully I wasn’t taken advantage of, but I guess it happens.

Thanks again.
 

DrumR69

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I don't think anything has been changed on this.
It is a newer snare with brass hardware.
The badge is a newer Keystone that has Made in USA on it that came after Large Keystone.
I could be wrong
2013 could definitely be correct.
Just my opinion of course

Wayne
 

lossforgain

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I don't think anything has been changed on this.
It is a newer snare with brass hardware.
The badge is a newer Keystone that has Made in USA on it that came after Large Keystone.
I could be wrong
2013 could definitely be correct.
Just my opinion of course

Wayne
Wayne, the new badges do NOT have a serial number engraved on them, and if they did it would certainly not be a 5-digit serial. Badge is wrong.
 

hsosdrum

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Could the B&W sticker indicate B-stock? If so, everything except the badge tells me it would be a B-stock LB416BT (the lighter color is similar to mine) or a B-stock LB400BBTWM (COB version). But that S/N on the badge has me flummoxed. 2013 is the right ballpark for the year.
 

DrumR69

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Wayne, the new badges do NOT have a serial number engraved on them, and if they did it would certainly not be a 5-digit serial. Badge is wrong.
Hi lossforgain,
I tried to get a clear picture of the snare page from 2013 Ludwig catalog but couldn’t find one, but they did offer these snares with brass hardware.
The new badges after these you are correct don’t have numbers.
The badge like the op’s picture with chrome grommets were issued for a short time and didn’t have Monroe NC on them but did have “Made in USA”
Also pictured an old reply by another member stating exactly what we are talking about and it is from 2010 post.
Wayne
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hsosdrum

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Hi lossforgain,
I tried to get a clear picture of the snare page from 2013 Ludwig catalog but couldn’t find one, but they did offer these snares with brass hardware.
The new badges after these you are correct don’t have numbers.
The badge like the op’s picture with chrome grommets were issued for a short time and didn’t have Monroe NC on them but did have “Made in USA”
Also pictured an old reply by another member stating exactly what we are talking about and it is from 2010 post.
Wayne
The drum in question looks exactly like the LB416BT Brass-on-Brass Black Beauty that I ordered new from Pro Drum Shop in June of 2013 and received in September of 2013, except for the black & white sticker inside (mine has a large Ludwig sticker containing a barcode and a serial number), and the serial number on the badge (the badge on mine has no serial number but is otherwise identical, including the chrome grommet). It's a brass shell. My guess is that the OP's drum is a B-stock, which would explain the B&W sticker and perhaps the serial number on the badge.

The LB416BT has been available since around 2010 and is currently still available from Ludwig. A B-stock is definitely worth $500 (I paid $799 for my new A-stock one in 2013). Congratulations! It's a killer drum — enjoy it.

Pics of my drum:

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lossforgain

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The new badges after these you are correct don’t have numbers.
The badge like the op’s picture with chrome grommets were issued for a short time and didn’t have Monroe NC on them but did have “Made in USA”
Also pictured an old reply by another member stating exactly what we are talking about and it is from 2010 post.
Wayne View attachment 519425
Does @bellbrass still have that drum? Would like to see a picture. I've not held a new era drum in my hands that had a serial number on the small keystone badge, rather they all look like the badge that @hsosdrum showed in his last post.
Worth noting also, is that bellbrass comments about the new badges being laser-etched rather than stamped. I don't gamble, but I would bet you $100 that the OP's badge is a vintage badge which has been transplanted onto a more recent shell. That 5-digit stamped serial number is a dead giveaway.
 

bellbrass

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Does @bellbrass still have that drum? Would like to see a picture. I've not held a new era drum in my hands that had a serial number on the small keystone badge, rather they all look like the badge that @hsosdrum showed in his last post.
Worth noting also, is that bellbrass comments about the new badges being laser-etched rather than stamped. I don't gamble, but I would bet you $100 that the OP's badge is a vintage badge which has been transplanted onto a more recent shell. That 5-digit stamped serial number is a dead giveaway.
Nope; sold that one long ago. But I do remember laser etching rather than stamping; I had those badges on a couple of drum kits over the years. However...the OP's badge doesn't look vintage to me; I think the "Ludwig" was also stamped (or had raised lettering) back in the day. Laser etching = new badge (or recent). It's almost like someone took a recent Monroe badge and hand-stamped a serial number on it, unless Ludwig actually did do stamped serial numbers on badges for a while recently....don't they still do that for the B/O badge?
 


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