At what point do made-in-Taiwan/China drums become cool?

TDM

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steambent said:
Manufacturing is already coming back to the USA.
Not in the significant and tangible way I meant. For example, there are very few drum companies using anything but hardware made in China. However, given the weight of hardware and to some degree it's bulky nature (for cubing purposes), this could change drastically if shipping become such that it is no longer feasible to ship this hardware all over the world. This is the kind of change I mean.
 

dsop

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I'm thinking of selling all my made-in-China drums and getting a new set. Maybe British Drum Co. or Ludwig.
I'm gonna wait until this pandemic is over, and then see if China decides to do something about their bizarre attitudes/customs/behavior regarding animals and the wildlife trade.
If they don't change, I hope the rest of the world says enough is enough, and bans all trade/travel with China, and/or any other country that does anything similar.
 

Iristone

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As a Chinese I'd think of the following:
  1. In the recent 10-20 years emerged a lot of respectable Chinese companies, a bit like Japan in the 60s-80s (I can only speak of Mainland; Taiwan is out of my knowledge). Before that we relied on either imports (prestige products) or state-owned factories (they make nice microphones and traditional percussion, but not drumsets that I know of).
  2. Many industries might start off as cheap knock-offs. Remember lawsuit guitars? It's just that some of them were/are made so well they became classics of their own.
  3. Over at guitar and bass forums the MIC Squier Classic Vibes are highly regarded. Some say they rival MIM Standards. I've a CV Tele, it's nice but I found maybe I'm not into Teles (I definitely see the charm but I'd prefer a plain ol' Les Paul). They say they're better made than MII Vintage Modifieds (and the new reissued CVs). But I've a VM Jazz Bass too, and it's just fine.
  4. I think it's mainly a prestige thing, a "chain of despisement" as we Chinese say. The more expensive, fancily made instruments will win on the "fame" scale - and maybe rarity?
  5. As for the political part - I won't elaborate, I still want my DFO account. :shaking:
 

Iristone

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Now people look at Made in China the way they were looking at MIJ back in the 70s.
Touché.
I wonder why some of the (not Bri's, of course) overtly political threads still exist? Hello moderators? :hello2:
 

Buffalo_drummer

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DW has their lugs, hoops, spurs, and claws made in Taiwan. Likely their standard 32 tpi tension rods as well. The 50 tpi may be made in USA, but Im not 100% sure. Also, the majority of their stands and pedals are made in Taiwan or China. They do make some hardware in the Oxnard, CA plant, like some of their 9000 pedals and hi hat stands, but pretty much everything else with chrome on it is made overseas.
This.
The cost to manufacture the hardware on any drum would drive the cost of the kit out of the reach of the average drummer. So for all those that ridicule what A&F are charging for their kits, that’s the cost of making drums fully in the US.
 

michaelg

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Chinese is never cool.

USA for the win. I'm fine with Japan as well.

Count me out of any drums made in China. Ever. To the end of time.
I'm puzzled by your statement here and not sure how to interpret it or if i should be offended ? Care to elaborate ?
What does "USA for the win" mean ?
 

dsop

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So for all those that ridicule what A&F are charging for their kits, that’s the cost of making drums fully in the US.
That's what it costs when you are forced to treat your employees properly, and safety standards exist.
Many countries (including China) have very little (any?) labor laws, and workers are exploited ruthlessly, all to save a few bucks so that some Walmart exec. can buy another helicopter and yacht.
Enough already. Sure, chrome plating isn't easy, especially when you are forced to handle the hazardous materials and processes.
I'm sure it can be done though. Better yet, let's forgo all the chrome and get used to different finishing for metal parts.

Don't get me wrong. I love my drums. They're of excellent quality. But if I need to make a statement in order to combat the gross wet markets and horrible working conditions, I'll sell them at a loss.
 

Tama CW

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I agree RCulberson. Made in Taiwan Yamaha's (1977-1982) were outstanding drums. As were the identically Made In Japan drums of that same period. The world starting waking up to Taiwan/Japanese quality. Tama was right on their heels too. And by 1982 Yamaha exploded on the scene with their 900 series YRC's....and the Made in Taiwan era ended. They sent the American drum mfg's for a loop. So to answer the OP's original question........made in Taiwan was cool as early as 1976/77 on the Yamaha 7000/9000/000 series drums.....still some of the best quality tubs ever made. Attention to detail was superb....and they compare well to today's drums.
 
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MntnMan62

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I actually differentiate the quality of products coming from mainland China and from Taiwan. For all intents and purposes at the moment, they are two distinct and separate countries. I can't speak to drums because I haven't bought Taiwanese drums, or Chinese drums for that matter, but the products I have bought from each country I have had different experiences. My bike, a Motobecane, is made in Taiwan. Bought it in 2001 or so and it still rides like the day I bought it after putting serious miles on that baby. I love it. But everything that I've bought that has been made in mainland China has disappointed. I've bought a bunch of electronics from China. Clock radios, air conditioners, trail running shoes, some clothes, dehumidifiers. I have to say the stuff made in China usually does not last as long as the warranty for the item. My dehumidifier stopped working and I had it just a month or so beyond the warranty period. Why can't a product that costs $140 last longer than a year or so? My chinese made trail running shoes start falling apart after a year or so. Other trail running shoes I've had for years. Easily as long as 5 years. Sure the tread is wearing but they fit great and the seams aren't coming apart. Same with clothes. They always seem to fall apart after about a year of normal wear. I take care of my stuff and no matter what I do, chinese made stuff starts to unravel at the seams. Clock radios don't last long at all. Yeah, so, given my poor experience with Chinese made products I no longer am willing to buy Made in China if I can find a suitable alternative made elsewhere. I do have some political issues with China which also factor into my choices but it's not like I need much justification given how poorly made the chinese stuff is. So, while some may take my entire rant here to be politically motivated, I'm here to tell you it's not. The motivation is quality, purely and simply. So, as a result, I would never buy a Chinese made drum set. I've been considering buying a Yamaha Stage Custom or Recording Custom kit and would only buy one used that was built in Japan before they moved production to China. My current kit is vintage, made in Illinois in the 70's, so not really fair. Anyway, that is my perspective. It's mine and I don't expect anyone to share it. If you do, great. If not, that's ok too.
 

GeneZ

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I purchased soft cases for my Cadeson drums (beautiful, Taiwan made) around twenty years ago. I purchased them from a pro shop near Atlanta. I got them home and sorted them out. One thing I found depressing. It was not that I found out they were made in China. What I found depressing was they included a little pamphlet which was printed to reassure the buyer that child labor was not used to make them.
 

dogmanaut

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Well, geez... blast from the past. This thread’s been sitting dormant for almost three years until today.

Just to try to re-focus the conversation, the question was specifically about made-in-Taiwan and made-in-China drums. Since originally starting this thread, I’ve been heartened to see that, at least among the members of one of the main Yamaha-centric FB groups, there’s quite a bit of pushback against the notion that the MIJ stuff is inherently superior to the newer Chinese-made Yammies. That isn’t in any way a ding against the Sakae-era drums; it’s just an acknowledgment that newer Yamaha products have maintained the same high quality, regardless of where they’re manufactured.

Out in the wild, though, nothing’s changed all that much from what I can tell. “MIJ” is still used as a selling point all over the place in Reverb and eBay listings, etc. — the obvious implication being that non-MIJ stuff is worse or bad. Which just isn’t the case.

Anyway, I’m about to get my first made-in-China Yammies (hopefully early next week), so good timing on resurrecting this thread, I guess lol.
 
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Mcjnic

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Well, geez... blast from the past. This thread’s been sitting dormant for almost three years until today.

I know. I posted about the Taiwan Yamaha drums several years ago. Took a few years for the world to catch up.

I’ll add this ...


 

tris66

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That's what it costs when you are forced to treat your employees properly, and safety standards exist.
Many countries (including China) have very little (any?) labor laws, and workers are exploited ruthlessly, all to save a few bucks so that some Walmart exec. can buy another helicopter and yacht.
Enough already. Sure, chrome plating isn't easy, especially when you are forced to handle the hazardous materials and processes.
I'm sure it can be done though. Better yet, let's forgo all the chrome and get used to different finishing for metal parts.

Don't get me wrong. I love my drums. They're of excellent quality. But if I need to make a statement in order to combat the gross wet markets and horrible working conditions, I'll sell them at a loss.
I separate the country of manufacture and quality. Country of manufacture ≠ quality. Quality =quality. The internationalists will drop a fully modern, functional factory wherever there is adequate infrastructure and cheap labor. It is a system of production that produces the quality not who is working in it.... to a degree. And the internationalists have killed tarrifs so those N American hardwoods are being shipped to (name a country.) Quality or lack of it is not a function of where it came from. Environmental and political factors sway me more. Internationalism/ corporatism/ merchantism isn't anything new. It was one of the many reasons some Yankees came out of the hills and started shooting the sh*t out of red coats in 1775 and some fine Bostonian lads had a little tea party in the bay....
As far as wet markets.... I wouldn't disagree. I'd suggest you take a look in your own back yard, too. Factory farms are not pretty, either. Further, animal cruelty is pretty universal. I'm replying to your comment because of my experience THIS WEEK. Im in the middle of Montana. A rancher ran out of money. He could not afford more hay. Instead of selling the cattle, giving them to his neighbors, taking a 47th morgage on the place, etc... he was letting them starve. I got to see it first hand. {edit long story} I had one pickup load of hay left from last year, so I loaded it up {edit long story} we fed sickly, thin, dying cattle in a blizzard surrounded by starved corpses. Nearly surreal. I can understand man's cruelty to each other, but cruelty to helpless fenced in animals... that almost made me cry. Chinese problems? Yup. Got some in my back yard, too.
Best quality and known social/ environmental impact? Know your builder. Plug for Inde and Bettis here.
 

musiqman

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I agree RCulberson. Made in Taiwan Yamaha's (1977-1982) were outstanding drums. As were the identically Made In Japan drums of that same period. The world starting waking up to Taiwan/Japanese quality. Tama was right on their heels too. And by 1982 Yamaha exploded on the scene with their 900 series YRC's....and the Made in Taiwan era ended. They sent the American drum mfg's for a loop. So to answer the OP's original question........made in Taiwan was cool as early as 1976/77 on the Yamaha 7000/9000/000 series drums.....still some of the best quality tubs ever made. Attention to detail was superb....and they compare well to today's drums.
Even the 9000 was made in Taiwan too for years.
 

rculberson

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Even the 9000 was made in Taiwan too for years.
musiqman, my 9000 set in the pic I posted was made in Taiwan. It was an amazing set. The only reason I let it go was due to finding a huge shell bank of 9000GA drums circa ‘82-‘84 that I knew I wanted to be my last drums.
 

musiqman

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musiqman, my 9000 set in the pic I posted was made in Taiwan. It was an amazing set. The only reason I let it go was due to finding a huge shell bank of 9000GA drums circa ‘82-‘84 that I knew I wanted to be my last drums.
This was my mostly Taiwan 9000.
Messages Image(1201748801).png


IMG_2549.jpg


And these black wrapped GA 9000's:
IMG_1918.JPG


I got the main set for about €450,- and added the 10'' and 18'' to it (which obviously cost much more ).

Although I prefer the new RC and the original Rock Tour Custom over the old RC's. They played lovely.

I had these 5000's from Taiwan too.
YD5000.jpg


ALL GREAT QUALITY!
 
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Rich K.

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I actually differentiate the quality of products coming from mainland China and from Taiwan. For all intents and purposes at the moment, they are two distinct and separate countries. I can't speak to drums because I haven't bought Taiwanese drums, or Chinese drums for that matter, but the products I have bought from each country I have had different experiences. My bike, a Motobecane, is made in Taiwan. Bought it in 2001 or so and it still rides like the day I bought it after putting serious miles on that baby. I love it. But everything that I've bought that has been made in mainland China has disappointed. I've bought a bunch of electronics from China. Clock radios, air conditioners, trail running shoes, some clothes, dehumidifiers. I have to say the stuff made in China usually does not last as long as the warranty for the item. My dehumidifier stopped working and I had it just a month or so beyond the warranty period. Why can't a product that costs $140 last longer than a year or so? My chinese made trail running shoes start falling apart after a year or so. Other trail running shoes I've had for years. Easily as long as 5 years. Sure the tread is wearing but they fit great and the seams aren't coming apart. Same with clothes. They always seem to fall apart after about a year of normal wear. I take care of my stuff and no matter what I do, chinese made stuff starts to unravel at the seams. Clock radios don't last long at all. Yeah, so, given my poor experience with Chinese made products I no longer am willing to buy Made in China if I can find a suitable alternative made elsewhere. I do have some political issues with China which also factor into my choices but it's not like I need much justification given how poorly made the chinese stuff is. So, while some may take my entire rant here to be politically motivated, I'm here to tell you it's not. The motivation is quality, purely and simply. So, as a result, I would never buy a Chinese made drum set. I've been considering buying a Yamaha Stage Custom or Recording Custom kit and would only buy one used that was built in Japan before they moved production to China. My current kit is vintage, made in Illinois in the 70's, so not really fair. Anyway, that is my perspective. It's mine and I don't expect anyone to share it. If you do, great. If not, that's ok too.
Clock radio???
 

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