Authenticating a cymbal?

Toast Tee

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Is there any way to authenticate cymbal that had been used by a drummer over 35 years ago
Are there records of serial #'s, or experts who may know?
If the answer is yes, please pm me.
Brand is Paiste FWIW
 

Toast Tee

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I have to bump this. Probably nothing, but could be a game changer in life
 

Soulfinger

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I´m not sure I understand the question. Do you have a cymbal with a serial # and want to find out what it is? Or who it was sold to?
 

Tama CW

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If the owner/drummer documented the serial number on something written that is now published then that would be a record.
Other than that, I don't see how you could link a particular cymbal to an artist.....other than unique features visible in old photos - such as cracks, chunks missing, strange patina, etc.
 

premierplayer

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Paiste, game changer in life cymbal, hmmmmm

There are doccuments (letters) and receipts for cymbals shipped for one certain Paiste user floting arround the innerwebs, I've seen them posted here or Holics before. 602's Giant Beats, etc.
 

Toast Tee

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Paiste, game changer in life cymbal, hmmmmm

There are doccuments (letters) and receipts for cymbals shipped for one certain Paiste user floting arround the innerwebs, I've seen them posted here or Holics before. 602's Giant Beats, etc.
Thank you. That's a start!
Ok, I'll fill in a bit of the story.
I got a few old (70's, and 80's) cymbals a few years ago. I've talked about the cymbals, as 1 I've never seen before in the size (cuustom order)
Anyway, the guy wasn't drunk, but was intoxicated on something, and it was obvious he was selling these for quick cash. This took place in NJ.
He claimed he worked all the big shows, and had access to some equipment used by artists.
I did not believe most of his not true.
Well, now looking back, most of his stories (the ones I remember) are accurate..
So I have 2 cymbals used by 2 of the biggest names in history.
I still find his stories hard to believe, but I've decided it's worth looking into at the very least.
One of the artist used Paiste RUDE for the show he claims he got it at.
However, he did use this type of cymbal (3 of them) along with his RUDES. he also did play tbe venue the guy claimed to have worked
And that's not the cymbal, or artist that I'm very interested in finding out about.
Oh, and on the one that would be a (life changer) is in great shape for 77, BUT someone attempted to scratch out the serial #.
Needless to say I'd be willing to pay if I can get it authenticated (like pawn stars)
 

Redfern

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In my experience, anytime that a serial number has been tampered with, the story, as great as it seems, doesn’t hold water. Just my 2 cents.

If the sale was on the up n up, I’d simply contact the musician whom the cymbal was played by, that is if they’re still alive. That’s the fastest way to “authenticate” it’s provenance.
 

Toast Tee

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In my experience, anytime that a serial number has been tampered with, the story, as great as it seems, doesn’t hold water. Just my 2 cents.

If the sale was on the up n up, I’d simply contact the musician whom the cymbal was played by, that is if they’re still alive. That’s the fastest way to “authenticate” it’s provenance.
I agree, and that's why I never mentioned anything for a few years. As time had gone, the story becomes more, and more accurate (of what I remember). I've been around, and understand how things work.
One of the cymbals is not in one of the drummers catalog for that tour. However the band documented as much as any band. I can see he used this one cymbal (brand, extremely rare size).
I would have NEVER mentioned this is it was just a scratched out (attempt) serial only. I actually hadn't for yrars. That's a red flag these days for stolen. However this is from 77, and no internet...
Like I said VERY VERY doubtful, but I've now found enough evidence to pursue
 

ThomFloor

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Hard to follow. You mentioned RUDe, but that line started in 1980, not 1977. But then you mention something about 77. Is that the RUDE...can't be.
The only other famous RUDE player that comes to mind is Stu Copeland.
 

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No, misunderstood.
83, 11 inch 2002 splash, according to the guy was from Shea 83 (Copeland & aldo Bonham coming up)
Before you hang up, check this out.
I did not believe the guy, as I immediately looked up Copeland's gear for the 83 tour, and it had Paiste Rude, and sizes. I wrote it off as zi still got a rare cymbal cheap.
As the past few year have gone, little bits, and pieces of the story were not false, however, I never actually thought this was a possibility until I saw pictures from Shea 83. Thr 2002 splas was there. My interest grew SLIGHTLY.

Now the 20 inch Medium was the 20 inch Bonham used at MSG 77.
Ok, i am pretty sure they guy did happen to work the large venues during the time he said he did. I do not remember exactly what he said he did though.
He did mention these, and other items were lifted commonly, but like I said, I thought the man was intoxicated, and was looking for quick $ to stay that way. (The way I remember it)
I began to get a little interested in finding out, but didn't believe him until I saw the 2002 splashes at Shea.
Now, why would anyone try to scratch out a serial # from 77. There was no way to track anything, except "red handed".
Both cymbals were definitely used, but the edges are TOTALLY SMOOTH. I do think Zep did play MSG for several nights in 77?? And Bonham may have bren using 4 crashes at this point?
The stamps on everything are very solid too.
Now, good chance I'm nuts, and I'm not a big believer I'm not a big believer in coincidence.
So, even if there's a 1% chance this guy was telling the truth, it's become worth looking into.
That size 2002, with no stamp on the bottom, the strong stamps, his elaborate story, the attempt to scratch out the 77 Medium serial #.
Thrre are too many coincidences to ignore now.
I just wish I could remember what the guy said he did? I feel like If i can, I should look into this if possible?
 

jptrickster

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Your going back almost 45 yrs and really all you have to go on is heresay from a drunk guy. Sounds like a looong shot. Get ahold of Stewart and see what he remembers, might be your only chance at athenticating the splash. Contact Ocheltree or is he dead or was it Hinton at the Garden? (I was there but I'm no help I was drunk and stoned as well!!) That would be your only shot at honing in on that 20.
 

Toast Tee

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Your going back almost 45 yrs and really all you have to go on is heresay from a drunk guy. Sounds like a looong shot. Get ahold of Stewart and see what he remembers, might be your only chance at athenticating the splash. Contact Ocheltree or is he dead or was it Hinton at the Garden? (I was there but I'm no help I was drunk and stoned as well!!) That would be your only shot at honing in on that 20.
I know. Except I think it was opiates, or something hard..
I've seen listings of gear artists order before, or while on tour.
My only real chance would to have a listing of serial #'s, quantity, and description.
Why try to scratch out the serial # back in 77? The Copeland cymbal, if legit would be an incredible find.
A Bonham cymbal he used really would be a life changer. I need to find the guys #, as I have his text messages somewhere. Even if he cleaned up his act, and they happen to be legit, I doubt he'd go into that kind of detail clean/sober.
It's not going to be easy, and like you implied, I'd hit dead end, after dead end.
My best chance would to be directly from Paiste, and hope thry have an order list w/serial #'s
 

Toast Tee

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Here's some pics. Unless this is normal, it look like Paiste "half ass" put on that bottom logo on the 20 medium. Like they didn't press as they would for "the shelves". I also put pics of the serial (I can read it, if it's not very visible)
The splash is a bit dirty, but the stamps are still perfect, as the edges on both cymbals.
There's no stamp at all on the bottom of the 11.
The last pic is the underside of the 11. Why no stamp at all?
I know I'm reaching here, but after several years now, this guy was way more accurate than I 1st believed.
I believe Zep did In fact play MSG several nights during that tour. A crook with access to those......?????
20210617_115256.jpg
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tbird8450

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I'd certainly contact Paiste with the serial # on that 20". Surely if there's a chance that you have a genuine Bonham cymbal, they'd be interested in verifying. In looking at his cymbal agreement with Paiste, there's no 20" medium listed, but that's not necessarily comprehensive. The only 20" crashes to be found there are Giant Beats, the rest are listed as "rides".
 

Toast Tee

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Geez, I’d love the 20” Medium even if it was owned by a nobody.
I played that 20 Medium for a bit when I 1st got it. The best wsy to describe it, is it makes a statement.
As the guy's story had more, and more truths to it, I just put it away.
I'd certainly contact Paiste with the serial # on that 20". Surely if there's a chance that you have a genuine Bonham cymbal, they'd be interested in verifying. In looking at his cymbal agreement with Paiste, there's no 20" medium listed, but that's not necessarily comprehensive. The only 20" crashes to be found there are Giant Beats, the rest are listed as "rides".
I saw that too. I saw someone on YouTube with a copy of his 1st cymbal order, but it had wss Giant Beats. I haven't seen anything regarding 2002 orders.

He was right about the 2002 Splashes from the 83 synchronicity tour.
The 2 facts that have me very curious now.
I have pics from the Synchronicity show at Shea, and the splashes are 2002's.
2) Why would anyone ever attempt to scratch of a serial # from 1977? It's not like they could have tried to pawn it, and the serial # would come up on the PC as stolen. There must be a list w/serial #'s if it was one of Bonham's, or nobody would try to scratch it out. It looks like it was a rushed job too. If he got questioned leaving with a cymbal?
That doesn't add up, yet this guy knew about these venues, spoke of all the shows he worked, and saw.
Copeland is one of the very few, if not the only artist I know of who used an 11 inch 2002, there are no stamps on the bottom of the one I have, it's an ultra rare cymbal as is..
Both cymbals have perfectly smooth edges too. If they were just used, rare cymbals from that long ago, I'd imagine there would be at least 1 rough spot on at least one of them?
I still think I'm probably reaching, but if I could find out, at least I'd know 1 way, or another
The hunt continues
 

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I would suggest plugging "bonham madison square 1977" into your search engine of choice and click "images". Tons of upshots so maybe you could at least match up that bottom ink slop. A start anyway.
 

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I would suggest plugging "bonham madison square 1977" into your search engine of choice and click "images". Tons of upshots so maybe you could at least match up that bottom ink slop. A start anyway.
I did. The only thing I could make out was the bottom of the underneath stamp also was missing tbe very bottom. I'll have to look at some other 77's, and check if that's just how the stamp was made for that years Black label 2002's, or if I found the cymbal.
Here was his tech for that tour.
A 20 Medium was intact used.

 


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