Barton Drums

xsabers

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I spent a couple of hours today with the owner of Barton and had the chance to check out the drums. First, I think it's a good thing to clear up some things. A lot of speculation has occurred in this thread without the benefit of first hand information. The factory in China is operated by Todd's partner on a day to day basis, but Todd is certainly involved. It is indeed their production facility. They also make shells for several other drum companies, somewhat like a company like World Max does. They buy the same wood from the same sources as companies like Yamaha, often tagging onto the same shipment. His employees make decent wages. The downside is that they are not a custom drum company. They offer their line of products with the varied finishes and wraps. Edges are 45 inner with a slight roundover outer. Sound IMO, was amazing. Looks are also amazing. Every detail was quality.

The rust kit will be delivered to the Staples Center to begin its job on a major Country Music tour. It was Spectacular.
 

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wayne

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Offering beech, that's great. I hope more players take a run at it, then they will know what all the fuss is about.
I thought they sell shells to other builders, you can see the similarities, especially in the lugs..

We could use another World Max to supply the many new, small operations.
 

JCKOriollo

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xsabers said:
I spent a couple of hours today with the owner of Barton and had the chance to check out the drums. First, I think it's a good thing to clear up some things. A lot of speculation has occurred in this thread without the benefit of first hand information. The factory in China is operated by Todd's partner on a day to day basis, but Todd is certainly involved. It is indeed their production facility. They also make shells for several other drum companies, somewhat like a company like World Max does. They buy the same wood from the same sources as companies like Yamaha, often tagging onto the same shipment. His employees make decent wages. The downside is that they are not a custom drum company. They offer their line of products with the varied finishes and wraps. Edges are 45 inner with a slight roundover outer. Sound IMO, was amazing. Looks are also amazing. Every detail was quality.

The rust kit will be delivered to the Staples Center to begin its job on a major Country Music tour. It was Spectacular.
I dont mean to come off sounding like a butt or anything but I dont think your post presents any new information not discussed already on this thread. (Speculation). The discussion basically was Barton drums is using a partner/supplier to provide them with completed drums and its likely that supplier makes stuff for other companies too. It was speculated that Barton obviously had input and communication with the supplier on the product.

Thats pretty much exactly what you said in your post. The drums seem very nice and the price point is fantastic. Nobody is knocking the drums...but it does seem true that the speculation that Bartons American operation isnt making anything is correct. I dont think it matters but some felt like their site made it seem like they were making the drums themselves and thats not really the case.
 

xsabers

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JCKLudwig said:
I spent a couple of hours today with the owner of Barton and had the chance to check out the drums. First, I think it's a good thing to clear up some things. A lot of speculation has occurred in this thread without the benefit of first hand information. The factory in China is operated by Todd's partner on a day to day basis, but Todd is certainly involved. It is indeed their production facility. They also make shells for several other drum companies, somewhat like a company like World Max does. They buy the same wood from the same sources as companies like Yamaha, often tagging onto the same shipment. His employees make decent wages. The downside is that they are not a custom drum company. They offer their line of products with the varied finishes and wraps. Edges are 45 inner with a slight roundover outer. Sound IMO, was amazing. Looks are also amazing. Every detail was quality.

The rust kit will be delivered to the Staples Center to begin its job on a major Country Music tour. It was Spectacular.
I dont mean to come off sounding like a butt or anything but I dont think your post presents any new information not discussed already on this thread. (Speculation). The discussion basically was Barton drums is using a partner/supplier to provide them with completed drums and its likely that supplier makes stuff for other companies too. It was speculated that Barton obviously had input and communication with the supplier on the product.

Thats pretty much exactly what you said in your post. The drums seem very nice and the price point is fantastic. Nobody is knocking the drums...but it does seem true that the speculation that Bartons American operation isnt making anything is correct. I dont think it matters but some felt like their site made it seem like they were making the drums themselves and thats not really the case.
When I say partner, I am not referring to a supplier. I am saying a one to one business partner. These two guys had already worked together and then formed this operation together to combine their experience and high attention to detail. They knew how they thought things should be done and wanted to create a place where that level of quality would exist. You seem to want to classify this as something less than what it is, and I think you are dead wrong. "Input and communication" is somewhat less than ownership of the operations. If I order from a custom drum company, I have input and communication, but that influence ends abruptly there. I have no input on brokering wood purchases, wood sourcing, manufacturing operations, exporting/importing, finishing, Q/C, and so on. You say, they are not making the drums themselves, yet who would you say is making the drums? If anything, it can be said that Barton is making OEM product for other brands. That's very different than saying Barton is buying drums from the same company that also sells to other drum companies.
 

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xsabers said:
I spent a couple of hours today with the owner of Barton and had the chance to check out the drums. First, I think it's a good thing to clear up some things. A lot of speculation has occurred in this thread without the benefit of first hand information. The factory in China is operated by Todd's partner on a day to day basis, but Todd is certainly involved. It is indeed their production facility. They also make shells for several other drum companies, somewhat like a company like World Max does. They buy the same wood from the same sources as companies like Yamaha, often tagging onto the same shipment. His employees make decent wages. The downside is that they are not a custom drum company. They offer their line of products with the varied finishes and wraps. Edges are 45 inner with a slight roundover outer. Sound IMO, was amazing. Looks are also amazing. Every detail was quality.

The rust kit will be delivered to the Staples Center to begin its job on a major Country Music tour. It was Spectacular.
I dont mean to come off sounding like a butt or anything but I dont think your post presents any new information not discussed already on this thread. (Speculation). The discussion basically was Barton drums is using a partner/supplier to provide them with completed drums and its likely that supplier makes stuff for other companies too. It was speculated that Barton obviously had input and communication with the supplier on the product.

Thats pretty much exactly what you said in your post. The drums seem very nice and the price point is fantastic. Nobody is knocking the drums...but it does seem true that the speculation that Bartons American operation isnt making anything is correct. I dont think it matters but some felt like their site made it seem like they were making the drums themselves and thats not really the case.
When I say partner, I am not referring to a supplier. I am saying a one to one business partner. These two guys had already worked together and then formed this operation together to combine their experience and high attention to detail. They knew how they thought things should be done and wanted to create a place where that level of quality would exist. You seem to want to classify this as something less than what it is, and I think you are dead wrong. "Input and communication" is somewhat less than ownership of the operations. If I order from a custom drum company, I have input and communication, but that influence ends abruptly there. I have no input on brokering wood purchases, wood sourcing, manufacturing operations, exporting/importing, finishing, Q/C, and so on. You say, they are not making the drums themselves, yet who would you say is making the drums? If anything, it can be said that Barton is making OEM product for other brands. That's very different than saying Barton is buying drums from the same company that also sells to other drum companies.
I wasn't wanting to classify it as anything. But often with drum companies, Its a game of semantics. Lots of companies call their supplier their partner as to make it out like they are doing more, or when they have direct input to the decisions about the product. Not saying that is happening here. I simply dont know.

Are you saying that Barton drums American owner owns a share of this Chinese company and makes profit from the shells the Chinese guy is making for other companies? If so, then yes I would consider that a totally different scenario, and would agree that I am wrong.

If Bartons owner indeed owns half of all the operations including what happens in China, then I would think they just split the profits. That is a very different scenario than if Barton America was just paying the Chinese company for highly customized stock to distribute under the barton name...but also a very less common scenario, so theres nothing wrong with wanting to know or thinking maybe it was a supplier/distributor relationship.

Not trying to discredit anything...just an interesting topic to me. Thanks for finding out the details.
 

xsabers

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I don't know if it's a 50/50 partnership, or 60/40 or whatever. The fact is these two guys started their own company to make a higher quality product than they were seeing being done in similar production facilities. Both were in from Day 1. Each had previous experience in building shells. Each knew the economics of using different components and thought that most companies place unrealistic pricing premiums on some wood types that are no more expensive to use to build on a per drum basis. They wanted to reach a market of younger players who would not pay premium prices based solely on a badge, but just wanted high quality, yet affordable gear.
 

mesazoo

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xsabers said:
I don't know if it's a 50/50 partnership, or 60/40 or whatever. The fact is these two guys started their own company to make a higher quality product than they were seeing being done in similar production facilities. Both were in from Day 1. Each had previous experience in building shells. Each knew the economics of using different components and thought that most companies place unrealistic pricing premiums on some wood types that are no more expensive to use to build on a per drum basis. They wanted to reach a market of younger players who would not pay premium prices based solely on a badge, but just wanted high quality, yet affordable gear.
If I were in the market I would certainly consider these as an option, hough I still feel there is probably a lot of smoke and mirrors here. Looking at their web presence, why no prominent mention of the partner? Why no documentation of their experience in shell manufacture that allows them to innovate? Why does the owners Professional resume have no mention of equipment manufacture? It appears they have a really limited selection of sizes and available stock is hit and miss if you can believe the website. This gives the appearance of them ordering product instead of building. They could very well be a modern stencil company which I don't mind. They may be more like George Way, there is really no information available to validate any of this besides vague statements from the company.
 

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xsabers said:
I don't know if it's a 50/50 partnership, or 60/40 or whatever. The fact is these two guys started their own company to make a higher quality product than they were seeing being done in similar production facilities. Both were in from Day 1. Each had previous experience in building shells. Each knew the economics of using different components and thought that most companies place unrealistic pricing premiums on some wood types that are no more expensive to use to build on a per drum basis. They wanted to reach a market of younger players who would not pay premium prices based solely on a badge, but just wanted high quality, yet affordable gear.
My local drum shop owner echoes this as well. He's a Barton dealer.
 

xsabers

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mesazoo said:
I don't know if it's a 50/50 partnership, or 60/40 or whatever. The fact is these two guys started their own company to make a higher quality product than they were seeing being done in similar production facilities. Both were in from Day 1. Each had previous experience in building shells. Each knew the economics of using different components and thought that most companies place unrealistic pricing premiums on some wood types that are no more expensive to use to build on a per drum basis. They wanted to reach a market of younger players who would not pay premium prices based solely on a badge, but just wanted high quality, yet affordable gear.
If I were in the market I would certainly consider these as an option, hough I still feel there is probably a lot of smoke and mirrors here. Looking at their web presence, why no prominent mention of the partner? Why no documentation of their experience in shell manufacture that allows them to innovate? Why does the owners Professional resume have no mention of equipment manufacture? It appears they have a really limited selection of sizes and available stock is hit and miss if you can believe the website. This gives the appearance of them ordering product instead of building. They could very well be a modern stencil company which I don't mind. They may be more like George Way, there is really no information available to validate any of this besides vague statements from the company.
Look, this is a small operation. They don't have a web design team and they actually make more OEM product than they do for their own branding. What I said was directly from the horse's mouth. No supposition. No hearsay. As opposed to opinions formed because the model doesn't fit a certain predetermined belief on the way things are or ought to be. I just hate to think that we could potentially harm a company's reputation by supposition and innuendo. This is definitely not another stencil company and even throwing that out there with zero substantiating evidence will resonate with some people and if stated often enough, will become the conventional wisdom. Does that make sense? I understand why you would want this info clearly stated on a website, and maybe that will come around soon enough. I would like to see that as well. This is a newer startup operation and they are running it on this side with relatively limited resources. They are moving a lot of product so they must be doing something right. I have a feeling that most of us on DFO are not within their primary demographic, although I would consider myself an outlier as I am definitely interested in at least a snare. If I pick one up I will gladly do a detailed review and include pics and sound files/video. We'll see about that. I have to purge some gear and these lower priced new drums are not doing the used market values any favors. LOL! The new Luddy line is another used gear value killer!
 

wayne

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These opinions are very enlightening, and I view them as correct all around. This is a wait and see what happens company and they will be watched carefully, especially by this forum. Beginning a new drum business these days is risky for sure, but I don't see where Barton has a substantial investment in there yet, which is smart on their part.
Keep it bare bones for now and take it one step at a time. Budget will dictate the presence in advertising as usual, but by keeping it low to the ground also keeps the pricing manageable .Most small operations are working under this format and have been doing so for a long time.
Some try the smoke and mirrors approach to make them appear what they are clearly not....AVOID.
 

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I saw two of their kits on Dave's website - both have sold in short order. I have watched some of their videos - their kits sound and look great at an amazing price point. I can only wish them well and much success! If anything were to happen to my beloved Ludwig's and I could not afford to replace them - I would look to Barton or Inde for my next kit!
 

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xsabers said:
I don't know if it's a 50/50 partnership, or 60/40 or whatever. The fact is these two guys started their own company to make a higher quality product than they were seeing being done in similar production facilities. Both were in from Day 1. Each had previous experience in building shells. Each knew the economics of using different components and thought that most companies place unrealistic pricing premiums on some wood types that are no more expensive to use to build on a per drum basis. They wanted to reach a market of younger players who would not pay premium prices based solely on a badge, but just wanted high quality, yet affordable gear.
If I were in the market I would certainly consider these as an option, hough I still feel there is probably a lot of smoke and mirrors here. Looking at their web presence, why no prominent mention of the partner? Why no documentation of their experience in shell manufacture that allows them to innovate? Why does the owners Professional resume have no mention of equipment manufacture? It appears they have a really limited selection of sizes and available stock is hit and miss if you can believe the website. This gives the appearance of them ordering product instead of building. They could very well be a modern stencil company which I don't mind. They may be more like George Way, there is really no information available to validate any of this besides vague statements from the company.
Look, this is a small operation. They don't have a web design team and they actually make more OEM product than they do for their own branding. What I said was directly from the horse's mouth. No supposition. No hearsay. As opposed to opinions formed because the model doesn't fit a certain predetermined belief on the way things are or ought to be. I just hate to think that we could potentially harm a company's reputation by supposition and innuendo. This is definitely not another stencil company and even throwing that out there with zero substantiating evidence will resonate with some people and if stated often enough, will become the conventional wisdom. Does that make sense? I understand why you would want this info clearly stated on a website, and maybe that will come around soon enough. I would like to see that as well. This is a newer startup operation and they are running it on this side with relatively limited resources. They are moving a lot of product so they must be doing something right. I have a feeling that most of us on DFO are not within their primary demographic, although I would consider myself an outlier as I am definitely interested in at least a snare. If I pick one up I will gladly do a detailed review and include pics and sound files/video. We'll see about that. I have to purge some gear and these lower priced new drums are not doing the used market values any favors. LOL! The new Luddy line is another used gear value killer!



Sorry, but just because the owner stated things to a potential customer directly also doesn't make it true. Drumshops want to sell product so they are going to echo the statements and mission of the company that provides them the dialogue. All things could be factual and they could be an OEM manufacturer. I'm not disputing that possibility, but taking statements from an owner of any company as truth without proof is no better than people forming speculative opinions that you are downplaying. Not trying to be harsh, but I know of a few 'custom' drum companies that have fed a lot of B.S. to the public that years later turned out to be lies. It likely helped them make $$ so, they apparently place that well above character and honesty. i deal with a lot of manufacturing facilities in China in another industry and things are not always as they seem. Presentation and 'face' are of utmost priority. I think it is ok for people to be cautious and not take statements as fact from someone recently emerged in a pretty small community all things considered. I respect a lot of your posts, but felt I needed to chime in here.
 

xsabers

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clowndog said:
I don't know if it's a 50/50 partnership, or 60/40 or whatever. The fact is these two guys started their own company to make a higher quality product than they were seeing being done in similar production facilities. Both were in from Day 1. Each had previous experience in building shells. Each knew the economics of using different components and thought that most companies place unrealistic pricing premiums on some wood types that are no more expensive to use to build on a per drum basis. They wanted to reach a market of younger players who would not pay premium prices based solely on a badge, but just wanted high quality, yet affordable gear.
If I were in the market I would certainly consider these as an option, hough I still feel there is probably a lot of smoke and mirrors here. Looking at their web presence, why no prominent mention of the partner? Why no documentation of their experience in shell manufacture that allows them to innovate? Why does the owners Professional resume have no mention of equipment manufacture? It appears they have a really limited selection of sizes and available stock is hit and miss if you can believe the website. This gives the appearance of them ordering product instead of building. They could very well be a modern stencil company which I don't mind. They may be more like George Way, there is really no information available to validate any of this besides vague statements from the company.
Look, this is a small operation. They don't have a web design team and they actually make more OEM product than they do for their own branding. What I said was directly from the horse's mouth. No supposition. No hearsay. As opposed to opinions formed because the model doesn't fit a certain predetermined belief on the way things are or ought to be. I just hate to think that we could potentially harm a company's reputation by supposition and innuendo. This is definitely not another stencil company and even throwing that out there with zero substantiating evidence will resonate with some people and if stated often enough, will become the conventional wisdom. Does that make sense? I understand why you would want this info clearly stated on a website, and maybe that will come around soon enough. I would like to see that as well. This is a newer startup operation and they are running it on this side with relatively limited resources. They are moving a lot of product so they must be doing something right. I have a feeling that most of us on DFO are not within their primary demographic, although I would consider myself an outlier as I am definitely interested in at least a snare. If I pick one up I will gladly do a detailed review and include pics and sound files/video. We'll see about that. I have to purge some gear and these lower priced new drums are not doing the used market values any favors. LOL! The new Luddy line is another used gear value killer!



Sorry, but just because the owner stated things to a potential customer directly also doesn't make it true. Drumshops want to sell product so they are going to echo the statements and mission of the company that provides them the dialogue. All things could be factual and they could be an OEM manufacturer. I'm not disputing that possibility, but taking statements from an owner of any company as truth without proof is no better than people forming speculative opinions that you are downplaying. Not trying to be harsh, but I know of a few 'custom' drum companies that have fed a lot of B.S. to the public that years later turned out to be lies. It likely helped them make $$ so, they apparently place that well above character and honesty. i deal with a lot of manufacturing facilities in China in another industry and things are not always as they seem. Presentation and 'face' are of utmost priority. I think it is ok for people to be cautious and not take statements as fact from someone recently emerged in a pretty small community all things considered. I respect a lot of your posts, but felt I needed to chime in here.



I provided a brief overview of a long and detailed conversation that included a ton of pictures on his mobile phone. He sources the wood, he knows the employees by name, he's spent significant time at the factory. Not sure what elusive proof you are looking for, but to say these speculative opinions which are based on really nothing but preconceived notions, are as good as a detailed conversation with the head person, is nonsense. If this were the case, there would be no amount of proof outside of notarized legal documents that would satisfy the doubters. It's ok. I don't mind doubters. I know what I know and I've seen what I've seen and if that isn't enough to convince anyone here, that's on me.
 
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RickP

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Do you like the sound of the drums ?
Do you like how they look ?
Are they made well ?
Are they at a price point you like?

If you answer yes to these questions then who the heck cares where they are made ?
 

wayne

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"Who.the heck cares?"...Apparently legions of people from what I notice...Its a stigma that aint going anywhere soon.
 

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