>>>>>>>>Bill Stewart ! >>>>>>

rondrums51

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Most guys I see using matched grip don't play jazz very well--There's nothing going on with their left hand. Bill is an exception. Notice that he uses a French grip with the thumb on top of the stick. He has very good left hand independence.

Interesting that Max Roach switched to matched grip in his latter years. Jack DeJohnette has switched, too.

Decades ago, British jazz drummers like Phil Seaman and Ronnie Stephenson were playing matched grip and doing all kind of mess with the left hands.
 

amazish

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A bit of a generalization I'd say... [I mean come on - Billy Cobham, Lenny White, Dennis Chambers, Ari Hoenig, Marcus Gilmore, Brian Blade all play mostly matched ! ]

Not a whole lot cares about matched or traditional other than drummers....

Bill Stewart is one of my favorites, I feel lucky to have seen him live a few times with Metheny, and always learn so much from him. Influenced me a lot since l was about 15. Real creator of cycles and melodies.... And his technique is sublime no matter matched or not... ; ]
He's one of the few that plays more than one beat at a time. He plays "true" rhythm - that is to say - divisions and multiplications of 2 and 3 - simultaneously.
 
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rondrums51

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amazish said:
A bit of a generalization I'd say... [I mean come on - Billy Cobham, Lenny White, Dennis Chambers, Ari Hoenig, Marcus Gilmore, Brian Blade all play mostly matched ! ]

Not a whole lot cares about matched or traditional other than drummers....

Bill Stewart is one of my favorites, I feel lucky to have seen him live a few times with Metheny, and always learn so much from him. Influenced me a lot since l was about 15. Real creator of cycles and melodies.... And his technique is sublime no matter matched or not... ; ]
He's one of the few that plays more than one beat at a time. He plays "true" rhythm - that is to say - divisions and multiplications of 2 and 3 - simultaneously.
I'm not talking about the people you listed. I'm talking about local drummers that I see all the time, who call themselves "jazz players." They could take lessons from those guys.
 
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amazish

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Right on.
I read your short bio - RESPECT my friend.
 
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dmacc

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I've been immersing myself in Bill Stewart recordings for the last couple years (along with Ari). Just a beautiful / amazing player.

In May I was able to watch him at the Village Vanguard. Show wasn't packed so the server asked us if we'd like to stay put for the second set after the first set had ended. We did. 3 solid hours of being about 20 feet away from watching his every move.

Great night!
 

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Love how Bill's entire body is involved in the music he is creating.
 

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Yeah, Bill is great! One of my favorite "new" guys.

That matched grip comment above is merely a static observation.
Statistically speaking, a randomly picked matched grip player plays jazz worse than a randomly picked trad. grip player, even if both claim to be jazz players. Because anyone can claim to play jazz, but the truth is often something else.
I think given the history of jazz drumming and trad.grip's popularity in that genre, the statistic is only a natural thing to occur. Having trad.grip down shows at least some sort of dedication to that genre, and dedication makes good jazz drummers, not their grip.
So it doesn't mean anything on a individual level. Playing trad.grip itself don't make you a better jazz player.

Funny side note, I play both grips but matched much, much better. At least 3 different jazz teachers (Ian Froman being one of them) have commented on me using trad.grip on their lesson. The comment has been pretty much to "forget that bulls**t, just use the grip you know the best and concentrate on swinging. The grip does not matter." :D
 
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dmacc

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amazish said:
dmacc - GREAT !
Yes, thanks... It was a highlight of my life in most recent times.

Markkuliini said:
Yeah, Bill is great! One of my favorite "new" guys.

That matched grip comment above is merely a static observation.
Statistically speaking, a randomly picked matched grip player plays jazz worse than a randomly picked trad. grip player, even if both claim to be jazz players. Because anyone can claim to play jazz, but the truth is often something else.
I think given the history of jazz drumming and trad.grip's popularity in that genre, the statistic is only a natural thing to occur. Having trad.grip down shows at least some sort of dedication to that genre, and dedication makes good jazz drummers, not their grip.
So it doesn't mean anything on a individual level. Playing trad.grip itself don't make you a better jazz player.

Funny side note, I play both grips but matched much, much better. At least 3 different jazz teachers (Ian Froman being one of them) have commented on me using trad.grip on their lesson. The comment has been pretty much to "forget that bulls**t, just use the grip you know the best and concentrate on swinging. The grip does not matter." :D
Well said. Grip is deeply rooted in tradition. I play both as well and prefer matched. My dad could never figure out how or why I could deal with matched. My teachers have also told me to play whatever felt most comfortable to me and let the rest go. They were also jazz drummers of the "higher order" along the likes of Ian.

By the way - that's awesome you've studied with Ian. Would love to have that opportunity.
 

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dmacc said:
I've been immersing myself in Bill Stewart recordings for the last couple years (along with Ari). Just a beautiful / amazing player.

In May I was able to watch him at the Village Vanguard. Show wasn't packed so the server asked us if we'd like to stay put for the second set after the first set had ended. We did. 3 solid hours of being about 20 feet away from watching his every move.

Great night!
Great for you...but a sad commentary on the state of jazz and in NYC no less.
 

rondrums51

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Put a stick in your left hand, matched grip, palm down, and see how far back you can bring your wrist. About 90 degrees, maybe. Now try it with trad grip. Now, your wrist is rotating, and you can swing that sucker way back. Using the Moeller technique, this really makes a difference.

Not knocking matched grip, just saying that trad, even though it's based on old parade drums, opens up different possibilities with the left hand. Check out Michael Carvin here. He solos around 16:00, but watch his comping, too.

Now, playing French matched grip is a different story. It's a better idea because your hand is turned sideways with the thumb on top, and you can now rotate your wrist more. That's the way Bill Stewart plays. He's my favorite matched grip player.

 
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Markkuliini said:
Playing trad.grip itself don't make you a better jazz player.
I agree 100 percent. I see trad grip players all the time who have lousy left hand independence.

Left hand independence, (or vice versa for lefties) is the hallmark of modern jazz drumming. It's what Jim Chapin was presenting in his famous book.

I don't care how anybody holds the sticks. But if you haven't learned independence, you ain't playing jazz.
 

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Put a stick in your left hand, matched grip, palm down, and see how far back you can bring your wrist. About 90 degrees, maybe. Now try it with trad grip. Now, your wrist is rotating, and you can swing that sucker way back. Using the Moeller technique, this really makes a difference.
Ron

With all due respect my friend, this point is pointless.
 

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rondrums51 said:
Put a stick in your left hand, matched grip, palm down, and see how far back you can bring your wrist. About 90 degrees, maybe. Now try it with trad grip. Now, your wrist is rotating, and you can swing that sucker way back. Using the Moeller technique, this really makes a difference.
Then why not use that grip with the right hand too?
 

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Rich K. said:
Put a stick in your left hand, matched grip, palm down, and see how far back you can bring your wrist. About 90 degrees, maybe. Now try it with trad grip. Now, your wrist is rotating, and you can swing that sucker way back. Using the Moeller technique, this really makes a difference.
Then why not use that grip with the right hand too?
Pretty much all the jazz players do, at least when riding. Actually most of drummer turn their wrist to thump up position when they move their right hand on the ride cymbal.
 

amazish

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Here's how to solve this very important issue [important only to drummers l think]
Here's a "Jazz" drummer playing a mix of matched and traditional. Every time he plays matched he suddenly sounds lousy..... ; ] ahm ahm...


And here's an unknown musician playing an unknown grip. But it grooves !

 
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rondrums51

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Markkuliini said:
Put a stick in your left hand, matched grip, palm down, and see how far back you can bring your wrist. About 90 degrees, maybe. Now try it with trad grip. Now, your wrist is rotating, and you can swing that sucker way back. Using the Moeller technique, this really makes a difference.
Then why not use that grip with the right hand too?
Pretty much all the jazz players do, at least when riding. Actually most of drummer turn their wrist to thump up position when they move their right hand on the ride cymbal.



Correct.
 

rondrums51

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nanashi said:
Put a stick in your left hand, matched grip, palm down, and see how far back you can bring your wrist. About 90 degrees, maybe. Now try it with trad grip. Now, your wrist is rotating, and you can swing that sucker way back. Using the Moeller technique, this really makes a difference.
Ron

With all due respect my friend, this point is pointless.
I'm not knocking matched grip. I'm just saying the different approach with the left hand appeals to a lot of players.
 


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