Billy Higgin's left side 20" old k

tkillian

DFO Master
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
3,021
Reaction score
1,513
And what modern 20" is close?

Maybe a video link?
 

toddbishop

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
81
Reaction score
91
I think you're right about Billy's being trashier-- or darker anyway, not sure about the pitch. I was thinking an Agop ML might be similar, but not that one. To me that's a glassy Bosphorus-like sound-- at least the way it's recorded.
 

Ptrick

Very well Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
1,019
Reaction score
1,383
Location
USA
That’s holy grail searching there, Tom. I think you’ll have to go with a specialized maker like Lauritsen or Funch. Here’s one that’s similar in pitch and response, but a 22” (I always thought the one in the Higgins video was a 22, but hard to tell).

 

JDA

DFO Star
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
17,153
Reaction score
5,901
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
In 20" old Ks you'd have four choices initially..
a Type III, a type IV (recent Philly Joe repo done thread was posted here)
an Intermediate ( bright higher cup) or a bog standard New Stamp.

Weight would be what you find. Can't "pick" old Ks they come to ("pick") you...
I would not bet my life on that being an old K 20
It's too hard to study from this vantage point

But I would say if I had to say "any" old K would be closer/closest than any other make.
2nd would be a new Zildjian K
Third you start shaving/peeling the onion/ and get one characteristic here/ skip another (usually the bell)

Many cymbals can grab the "body" sound but when you reach up to the bell "many" cymbal fall short
.
bog standard New Stamp 20 (1967-1972) would be easiest entry 1st shot if you want to be authentic; if it is indeed an old K..
I can kinda see a New Stamp there (cup shape) but wouldn't bet
~
What is that 'cluster' ribbon mark at 6 o'clock on the cymbal? Is it a repair of some sort?
~
a 20" New Stamp around 2010g---lighter than that they-many times- become high pitch (I know counter-intuitive but true ) (because bow increase with thin weight hammering) (they the workers just kept hammering and hammering..)
So, a medium light New Stamp 20. (as weight increased better chance of flatter profile. Maybe just a flange at the edge (rare in 20" less rare in 22')

If one comes to you...
you can't "pick em" ..it's Too late : )
It was " too late" 30 years ago..
 
Last edited:

Seb77

DFO Veteran
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
2,343
Reaction score
960
Location
Germany
Thanks for the "hunting" idea, always fun and enlightening. Very much a cymbalholic-type thread!

Do you mean the cymbal in that clip , or do you think he played it in other clips as well? Here, I'm not even sure I'm looking at a 20". In some earlier clips with the 602 main it looks like a 20" K, but it could be a different one.
I think from one clip alone you can't really get an idea. Weight, size, performance etc., you need more angles, visually as well a sonically, to get an idea.

As far as modern series/models go, I also hear a trashy element, a certain imperfection, in there that is hard to find. Z is trying hard to re-introduce it by means of cluster hammering etc., but overall they're too perfect. Maybe some obscure Agean might be closer.

Meanwhile, in a parallel universe (cough - it's the Indians, not the arrows- cough):
 

Ptrick

Very well Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
1,019
Reaction score
1,383
Location
USA
Of the more readily available big brands, the Agop “TW” style build seems to promote that high stick with the low roar. These are the type of cymbals with two different types of lathing and a thinner edge. Here’s a Meinl and Bosphorus that have that kind of vibe, but I don’t think they compare as much as the Lauritsen I posted earlier.

 

JDA

DFO Star
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
17,153
Reaction score
5,901
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
20" New Stamp 67-72 old K.Zildjian. 2009g.
Been with me for a long time that cymbal "It" picked "me"...one night in the 'birthing' room on ebay the only other fella in the room was Dr. Mark Polis he stayed with me in the waiting room and encouraged me to bid on will never forget that kind gesture. 2006 cymbal was born (to me) at night. (*lol)
Like children they come into your life. (lol ha) can't "pick em..

Sound: (today..) 10 minutes ago)

https://soundcloud.com/jda56%2Foldk20ns2010g
 
Last edited:

JDA

DFO Star
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
17,153
Reaction score
5,901
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
was that the best post e̶v̶e̶r̶ of 2020? #14?
:D

was unintentional..like children.. :O
~
lemme tell ya who what.. In "real Life?" ....Old ks are just "workhorses"...
sidenote: the "Ballard" stick the MJC4 has breathed "New Life" in (me) and my K's.
every hi/lo/ even mid/ partials are activated fresh/anew with this stick. (Ballard knew that and made designed it to do just that with or to any cymbal) It's a strong activator to any cymbal. Can reach all the depths of any cymbal with immediatcy. You think it and it gets there. the Stick mjc4 get 100% of the cymbal (or not) it's your choice; might get 125% of a cymbal it's that good.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Messages
975
Reaction score
745
Location
NY-NJ
I have listened to that "Hyperion" record a lot. That LSR sounds (to me) like a 20" EAK that I have had for years (the bell shape and the profile look similar to me too.) Surprisingly, Billy's LSR (and my 20" EAK) sound similar to the 20" Sound Creation Dark Crash that I recently acquired. I wish that I had the guts to drill that. But it seems sensible (to others) that you shouldn't put a filling in a hens tooth.

Tom have you ever owned a Paiste 20" Dark Energy Light Dark? They're fantastic. It might be right up your alley (meaning you probably wouldn't sell it for a month or so.) I'm not saying it sounds like Billy's LSR, but it's just a fantastic pie. Dark, trashy, great crash, nice bell, nice definition, lower pitch, but very "in tune" with itself.

I just figured I'd mention it to the guy who has owned (seemingly) EVERYTHING at one time or another. What did you think of it?

MSG
 

tkillian

DFO Master
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
3,021
Reaction score
1,513
I have listened to that "Hyperion" record a lot. That LSR sounds (to me) like a 20" EAK that I have had for years (the bell shape and the profile look similar to me too.) Surprisingly, Billy's LSR (and my 20" EAK) sound similar to the 20" Sound Creation Dark Crash that I recently acquired. I wish that I had the guts to drill that. But it seems sensible (to others) that you shouldn't put a filling in a hens tooth.

Tom have you ever owned a Paiste 20" Dark Energy Light Dark? They're fantastic. It might be right up your alley (meaning you probably wouldn't sell it for a month or so.) I'm not saying it sounds like Billy's LSR, but it's just a fantastic pie. Dark, trashy, great crash, nice bell, nice definition, lower pitch, but very "in tune" with itself.

I just figured I'd mention it to the guy who has owned (seemingly) EVERYTHING at one time or another. What did you think of it?

MSG
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :blob8:;)

I played one in a store. Like came back three weeks in a row but never snagged it.
Yeah. Nice!

Like a paiste version of the k custom left side ride.
 

Latest posts



Top