Bonzo's Montreux

[Treviso1]

Absolute hogwash. Maybe your creative mind worked better when you were younger, but it's preposterous to extrapolate that to be true for every other creative mind that's ever existed on the planet.

When I listen to recordings of my drumming from 50 years ago (I'm now 70) I can certainly hear lots of p*ss and vinegar (a willingness to "go for it"), but I also hear a drummer who wasn't a good listener, and wasn't able to control his musical impulses so he could use them to their best advantage. During the ensuing 50 years I've learned a great deal about how to harness my creativity so that my drumming serves whatever music I happen to be playing. (BTW, that music is definitely not pop music, but that's another thread).

Regardless of my personal experience, I would never be so foolish as to assume that every other creative mind that has ever existed has followed the same creative arc as I did from my youth into my old age.

Senility sets in and fills the mind full of delusions... The truth is that there is an arc for all things in life. There is a mid point, at which you realize that you are on the back nine and then the inevitable final decline.
It is the reason why there are no 70 year old basketball players in the NBA (heck, no one in their 50s either!) and no 70 year old rock stars who have made the best record of their careers. I didn't say not to enjoy every minute, I merely said that it is objectively true that youth brings all things to fruition and advancing age takes them all away. Believe it or not...I don't care... All the evidence is there for you to see, whether you need your glasses to see it is another story altogether.

 

[langmick]

Anyway you look at it, music is a young man's sport

It's not a sport. Older players need to watch their bodies more closely and have to deal with the realities of life.

Seeing metal bands, yes, bashing and beating in ALL CAPS all night, certainly that's for younger drummers...leave it to them, who wants that "sport" stuff.

Thinking of that, I recall a younger drummer than I, who has a degree in performance, drumline, all of that...he played super stiff, super hard, very manly testosterone stuff that proved how good he was...he was already dealing with numbness in his hands. So, not quite exclusively a young man's sport. If you're playing like that, what's the point.

 

[Treviso1]

It's not a sport. Older players need to watch their bodies more closely and have to deal with the realities of life.

Seeing metal bands, yes, bashing and beating in ALL CAPS all night, certainly that's for younger drummers...leave it to them, who wants that "sport" stuff.

Thinking of that, I recall a younger drummer than I, who has a degree in performance, drumline, all of that...he played super stiff, super hard, very manly testosterone stuff that proved how good he was...he was already dealing with numbness in his hands. So, not quite exclusively a young man's sport. If you're playing like that, what's the point.

You too, are missing my point. It is the reason why we don't live forever. There is a decline, no matter how much you think it isn't happening, that is both physical and mental and creativity lies somewhere in-between. I am not saying this for any reason other than it is reality. No artist, musician, athlete, conceptual thinker, etc...is better at 70, 80, or 90 years old than he was at 20, 30, or 40 years old. Sure, wisdom comes with age, but that is not what we are talking about here. I am talking about sheer prowess at one's craft.

 

[langmick]

You too, are missing my point. It is the reason why we don't live forever. There is a decline, no matter how much you think it isn't happening, that is both physical and mental and creativity lies somewhere in-between. I am not saying this for any reason other than it is reality. No artist, musician, athlete, conceptual thinker, etc...is better at 70, 80, or 90 years old than he was at 20, 30, or 40 years old. Sure, wisdom comes with age, but that is not what we are talking about here. I am talking about sheer prowess at one's craft.

Not missing the point. Sorry to disagree with your rather narrow ideas. Young bashers don't last into their 30s. What then. Is the 40 year old then too old?

Why is it when I saw Joe Morello in his later years he was essentially the exact same player he was when he was younger. He could raise the roof.

"conceptual thinker," a 70 year old conceptual thinker is most likely, more often than not better than they were at 20, 30 and probably 40. Of course the 90 year old is much different, it's not even worth discussing that.

That is not wisdom, it's time and the totality of experience and insight. Certainly younger people have more energy and endurance, but they also suffer from all the disabilities of youth. Youth is wasted on the young.

https://www.thirteen.org/openmind-archive/public-affairs/the-last-intellectuals/

 

[stuart s]

Is this the Thanksgiving pseudo drum family argument thread?

 

[Treviso1]

Not missing the point. Sorry to disagree with your rather narrow ideas. Young bashers don't last into their 30s. What then. Is the 40 year old then too old?

Why is it when I saw Joe Morello in his later years he was essentially the exact same player he was when he was younger. He could raise the roof.

"conceptual thinker," a 70 year old conceptual thinker is most likely, more often than not better than they were at 20, 30 and probably 40. Of course the 90 year old is much different, it's not even worth discussing that.

That is not wisdom, it's time and the totality of experience and insight. Certainly younger people have more energy and endurance, but they also suffer from all the disabilities of youth. Youth is wasted on the young.

https://www.thirteen.org/openmind-archive/public-affairs/the-last-intellectuals/

So, I will repost this part of my discussion:

Let's forget about the physical aspect of playing the gig... How about the creative aspect of playing the gig. I'll open up another can of worms... The creative mind is also a young man's (or woman) sport too. When I hear the things I played and went for when I was 20 years old, I am stunned at the creativity and the sheer courage I had to just plain "go for it." I would go for things that I would never dare to go for today, because I know better now. Yes, I am talking about what people used to call "being a hot dog." That is also part of the younger brain/body that I am talking about. I have seen this in virtually every player as well. Not only does the body change/age with time, but the creative mind does as well. There's a peak and then the decline. It is nature's way, unfortunately. While Paul McCartney has written all of the greatest songs of the 20th Century (IMHO), he hasn't written a single song that has moved me since "No More Lonely Nights" in 1984. Most musical artists have about a 5 year window in the spotlight where everything they do is gold, the stars in the heavens align, and they can do no wrong once they hit it big. After that, it's over. The decline is inevitable. Their peak has come and gone and they chase the past for the rest of their careers and eventually become an oldies band. Sure, there are exceptions to this rule, but not many. Heck, even The Beatles fit just about right in this spotlight window (1964-70...that's 6 years). Yes, The Rolling Stones had several windows and so did Aerosmith, but by in large...it's about a 5 year window in the spotlight. Name virtually any band and you will see that their greatest period is just about 5 years. Sure, RUSH had over 4 decades, but who will argue that their greatest 5 year period of success wasn't between 1980 (Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures, Signals, Grace Under Pressure) to 1985? That is unquestionably their peak. Neither the Stones nor Aerosmith have released original material worth listening to in several decades at this point. Sure, they are in their mid-to-late 70s or, perhaps, even 80 years old at this point... Again, creativity is a young man's sport! You don't have to agree with me and I don't care whether you do or don't, it's just what I have observed as a human being, musician, and philosophical being on this planet for the past 56 years.

 

[Treviso1]

Not missing the point. Sorry to disagree with your rather narrow ideas. Young bashers don't last into their 30s. What then. Is the 40 year old then too old?

Why is it when I saw Joe Morello in his later years he was essentially the exact same player he was when he was younger. He could raise the roof.

"conceptual thinker," a 70 year old conceptual thinker is most likely, more often than not better than they were at 20, 30 and probably 40. Of course the 90 year old is much different, it's not even worth discussing that.

That is not wisdom, it's time and the totality of experience and insight. Certainly younger people have more energy and endurance, but they also suffer from all the disabilities of youth. Youth is wasted on the young.

https://www.thirteen.org/openmind-archive/public-affairs/the-last-intellectuals/

P.S. You have no reference point with Joe Morello because while he was great up until the end, you never saw him in his prime. I promise you that he was not the same player with the same physical prowess. It's only natural as one ages.

 

[hsosdrum]

Senility sets in and fills the mind full of delusions... The truth is that there is an arc for all things in life. There is a mid point, at which you realize that you are on the back nine and then the inevitable final decline.
It is the reason why there are no 70 year old basketball players in the NBA (heck, no one in their 50s either!) and no 70 year old rock stars who have made the best record of their careers. I didn't say not to enjoy every minute, I merely said that it is objectively true that youth brings all things to fruition and advancing age takes them all away. Believe it or not...I don't care... All the evidence is there for you to see, whether you need your glasses to see it is another story altogether.

Your post #36 made two separate points: one about physical ability; the other about creativity. I took no issue with the idea that physical ability declines with age (probably one of the most well-documented facts in the history of humankind); I only addressed your wrongheaded contention that "the creative mind is a young man's (or woman's) game". The only evidence you cite to support this is your own experience, and your own opinion that Paul McCartney hasn't written a song that has moved you since 1984, which is also strictly your own experience. You clearly have no factual evidence with which to back up your ridiculous claim, and since my time is too valuable to argue with people devoid of facts on an issue, I bid you adieu on this.

 

[JimmyM]

Paul McCartney has had some really good songs since the hits stopped coming. Unfortunately he always chose lame songs as singles, and he could do with someone to tell him that some of his songs aren’t good. But who wants to be the one? Not me!

 

[BoomBoom]

Beethoven's final symphony was his best.

 

[BoomBoom]

Paul McCartney has had some really good songs since the hits stopped coming. Unfortunately he always chose lame songs as singles, and he could do with someone to tell him that some of his songs aren’t good. But who wants to be the one? Not me!

Basing quality of songs with hits is silly. Hits aren't the best songs, they're just the ones the record companies can sell.

 

[Treviso1]

Basing quality of songs with hits is silly. Hits aren't the best songs, they're just the ones the record companies can sell.

Paul McCartney has had some really good songs since the hits stopped coming. Unfortunately he always chose lame songs as singles, and he could do with someone to tell him that some of his songs aren’t good. But who wants to be the one? Not me!

OMG! Do you actually believe this?

 

[JimmyM]

OMG! Do you actually believe this?

OMG! Do you think I care if you don’t agree?

 

[Plaid Sabbath]

Yeah, so….ummm, that Bonzo’s Montreaux is a heck of a tune.

 

[Houndog]

Yeah, so….ummm, that Bonzo’s Montreaux is a heck of a tune.

I thought it was great in my youth , now that I’m old I just don’t think I can figure it out ……

 

[Nyama74]

Here's a video where George shares his thoughts/opinion on how portions of the piece may have been accomplished (with a familiar photo to support his hypothesis)....

Interesting theory about Bonzo using his double bass Vistalite kit for Bonzo's Montreux.

Guess it raises the question: do the drums on the recording sound like Vistalites? I've played Vistas before but never owned a set - always thought they had a pretty distintive sound. For Vista owners/those more familiar with them, what's the verdict?

 

[equipmentdork]

Paul McCartney has had some really good songs since the hits stopped coming. Unfortunately he always chose lame songs as singles, and he could do with someone to tell him that some of his songs aren’t good. But who wants to be the one? Not me!

I dunno about always, but I know that Nigel Godrich did try to force Paul's hand a little bit, and I know at first Paul wasn't crazy about it. But, that's the role of a producer, the artist delegates some authority to a knowledgeable entity, otherwise he/she should just do it him/herself. And he ain't always the best judge of his material.

I mean, I'd be petrified if Paul brought me something like "Biker Like An Icon" and asked me what I thought of it. Feed me a few beers, and I could probably say "Paul, you've written a bad pun, and then, you've written a terrible song around that bad pun, and what's worse, nobody on Earth knows what you're getting at." Then I'd be fired, but I'd have done my job. Apparently, someone(Linda?) said "I like a Leica" which turned into "I Like a Nikon" which turned into...yeesh. The world's worst "guess you had to be there" joke. I cannot even consider what John Lennon would have said about it, but I suspect he would have smacked it down, possibly outright. I mean, he refused to play on Maxwell's Silver Hammer....


Dan