Buddy Rich 70's snare

rondrums51

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I'm going nuts trying to find of of those 70's 4 X 14 Buddy Rich snares with the stick chopper hoops.

Here's a pic of a white pearl one, but I'd prefer chrome over wood.

I know that Slingerland made some replica versions in the 80's, but they weren't the same.

If anybody knows of one for sale, PM me. :occasion5:

buddy snare.jpg
 

CLMacPherson

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I don't really see much of those pop either. I think Chicago Drum makes a fairly close reproduction, but they're not cheap.
 

rondrums51

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idrum4fun

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rondrums51 said:
I'm really surprised no one is monitoring eBay for these drums! Here's the one you're looking for! Didn't sell, so let's see if it gets listed again.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1970-Slingerland-Buddy-Rich-COW-Snare-/112472118764?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=nGSPTRd9fNUABqXg4BU%252FhFvqtAU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

-Mark
Yeah, I saw that. He's asking too much, at least for my wallet.
Based on the rarity of this particular drum, I don't feel the asking price is too much. It does need polishing, but is all there, including the Stick Chopper hoops and COW wrap. If you're a BR fan and need this drum to complete a collection, or add to your kit, this drum is ideal.

After searching through saved images of BR COW snare drums that I've collected over the years, I found only one that included Stick Chopper hoops, but included a factory installed muffler. That drum sold back in December, 2008, for $810. All the other COW BR snares had Stick Saver hoops.

Something else to consider is that the depth of these shells seemed to range anywhere between 4" and 4.5". The particular drum for sale looks more like a 4.5" depth, which appears closer to the depth that Buddy used.

-Mark
 

bharrington

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Agreed with Mark - These drums are not common and usually command a hefty price with the BR collectors (and there are many!).

I saw this one but the condition was too poor for me - the wrap can be tough to clean up, and once it's pitted... it's staying that way.

Ron, I'll keep an eye out for you. I own one and have had two before. They are around, just not very easy to find. Might I suggest, you grab a 14" concert tom and have it cut down? I've seen Brooks Tegler do a really nice job making some replicas this way. Just make sure you alter a Zoomatic or you find an original BR model Zoomatic - The Zoomatic throw on the BR model was actually made different than the standard model, having a section cut out to allow the throw to clear the top hoop.

These are the two I had at one time - one 3ply with rerings, one 5ply. The 3ply version is in excellent condition and was ordered without a muffler just like Buddy.
 

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rondrums51

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bharrington said:
Agreed with Mark - These drums are not common and usually command a hefty price with the BR collectors (and there are many!).

I saw this one but the condition was too poor for me - the wrap can be tough to clean up, and once it's pitted... it's staying that way.

Ron, I'll keep an eye out for you. I own one and have had two before. They are around, just not very easy to find. Might I suggest, you grab a 14" concert tom and have it cut down? I've seen Brooks Tegler do a really nice job making some replicas this way. Just make sure you alter a Zoomatic or you find an original BR model Zoomatic - The Zoomatic throw on the BR model was actually made different than the standard model, having a section cut out to allow the throw to clear the top hoop.

These are the two I had at one time - one 3ply with rerings, one 5ply. The 3ply version is in excellent condition and was ordered without a muffler just like Buddy.
Man, that 3 ply one is the real deal. I'll bet it sounds ridiculous.

According to legend, Buddy liked the sound of the stick chopper hoops better.
 

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Are these drums with the 5 ply shell, with no re-rings anywhere near as desirable? How long or how much did Buddy Rich use them?
 

rondrums51

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Speedy Keen said:
Are these drums with the 5 ply shell, with no re-rings anywhere near as desirable? How long or how much did Buddy Rich use them?
No, the 5 ply shell was really thick. Totally different drum. Buddy used the 3 ply drum a lot in the 70's, but he also used a Fibes snare.

By the time Slingerland went to the 5 ply, Buddy had gotten his refurbished Radio Kings and was no longer endorsing anybody. I saw him in the last year before he died. He was still using a Rogers Swivomatic pedal. He had a dozen of them!
 

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I've seen videos of Buddy in the 70s using both the wood white marine pearl, and the metal version of this snare.

While *he* could make any snare sound great, I much prefer the sound he got from the wooden, WMP model. To me, just perfect.


 
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bharrington

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I'm going to quote the great Tommy Piorek who is "the" authority on Buddy's drums, in my opinion. Here is a quote from VDF talking about the production history of the 4x14 BR and TDR models.

The 1970 Slingerland 4X14 Buddy Rich was a three ply shell w/rings.. originally .. which was Slingerland's standard shell for many years. In 1972, Slingerland introduced their 5 ply no rings shell, and later models of the 4X14 Buddy Rich are in that configuration. It is "said" that Buddy liked the 5 ply over the 3 ply/rings regarding the 4X14 model snare drum.. but .. his earliest LIVE recordings feature the 3 ply w/rings in COW, although he did play the WMP model as well, especially early on. Somewhere around late 1972 early 1973, Slingerland presented Buddy with the then NEW 5 ply no rings BR/TDR with the TDR throw and three air vents. Buddy loved the drum!... until he didn't. <smile> This drum was always 5 ply, no rings until the end. Interestingly, I believe the first catalog to show the NEW 5 ply BR/TDR was the 1976 Slingerland catalog as the 1973 Catalog was still showing the 4X14 as THE Buddy Rich model. Typically though, the catalogs were ALWAYS behind in this regard.
Tommyp
 

Rich K.

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This thread made me take out my early '70s Buddy Rich model 4x14 (red tiger). It's a 5 ply with the straight hoops. It never sounded good and still doesn't. Strange because the 5 ply TDRs in 5x14 usually sound great.
 

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Rich K. said:
This thread made me take out my early '70s Buddy Rich model 4x14 (red tiger). It's a 5 ply with the straight hoops. It never sounded good and still doesn't. Strange because the 5 ply TDRs in 5x14 usually sound great.
The biggest issue with Singerland's 5-ply shell is that they are 3/8" thick and have a razor-sharp bearing edge with almost no back cut. As such, it requires that the shell be in level, both top and bottom. I know from personal experience with these shells from the 70's, that Slingerland was just not able to get a good level...despite the catalog picture of using a light into the drum to check for this! Have the shell checked on a milled granite slab. If needed, have the edges touched up and the drum should then sound great!

-Mark
 

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Agreed with Mark - These drums are not common and usually command a hefty price with the BR collectors (and there are many!).

I saw this one but the condition was too poor for me - the wrap can be tough to clean up, and once it's pitted... it's staying that way.

Ron, I'll keep an eye out for you. I own one and have had two before. They are around, just not very easy to find. Might I suggest, you grab a 14" concert tom and have it cut down? I've seen Brooks Tegler do a really nice job making some replicas this way. Just make sure you alter a Zoomatic or you find an original BR model Zoomatic - The Zoomatic throw on the BR model was actually made different than the standard model, having a section cut out to allow the throw to clear the top hoop.

These are the two I had at one time - one 3ply with rerings, one 5ply. The 3ply version is in excellent condition and was ordered without a muffler just like Buddy.
Hello, I know this is an Old Post but I was hoping you could help me with some information because I have a 3 ply cow just like you do however I have the stick saver hoops and not the stick Chopper hoops and my stick Savers are made of brass and I was wondering if these were ever available in brass with the stick Chopper version because I have been told that when the Buddy Rich Piccolo snare drum came out that brass hoops no longer were available so if they were stick Choppers they would only be Chrome over Steel...? Can you confirm this? Are yours Chrome over steel or brass? My understanding is slingerland phased out the Chrome over brass in the late 60s so maybe a few stick Choppers made of brass snuck out of the factory perhaps or were they available in the early seventies as well? It's very frustrating when you don't even know if something was ever made or not because I have only been able to locate a pair that are Chrome over steel and the drummer/collector that has this pair told me that brass was not available when they made this drum for buddy but another guy told me he has a pair made of brass but does not want to part with them so I'm going nuts over here maybe you can give me some advice or have some knowledge of this to help me out?! Thanks so much, Bob
 

Rich K.

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Hello, I know this is an Old Post but I was hoping you could help me with some information because I have a 3 ply cow just like you do however I have the stick saver hoops and not the stick Chopper hoops and my stick Savers are made of brass and I was wondering if these were ever available in brass with the stick Chopper version because I have been told that when the Buddy Rich Piccolo snare drum came out that brass hoops no longer were available so if they were stick Choppers they would only be Chrome over Steel...? Can you confirm this? Are yours Chrome over steel or brass? My understanding is slingerland phased out the Chrome over brass in the late 60s so maybe a few stick Choppers made of brass snuck out of the factory perhaps or were they available in the early seventies as well? It's very frustrating when you don't even know if something was ever made or not because I have only been able to locate a pair that are Chrome over steel and the drummer/collector that has this pair told me that brass was not available when they made this drum for buddy but another guy told me he has a pair made of brass but does not want to part with them so I'm going nuts over here maybe you can give me some advice or have some knowledge of this to help me out?! Thanks so much, Bob
A lot of those 4x14s were sold with "rim shot counter hoops" (stick savers) that would have been steel. Mine came with the straight stick choppers which are steel.
 

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A lot of those 4x14s were sold with "rim shot counter hoops" (stick savers) that would have been steel. Mine came with the straight stick choppers which are steel.
A lot of those 4x14s were sold with "rim shot counter hoops" (stick savers) that would have been steel. Mine came with the straight stick choppers which are steel.
Rich, thanks for letting me know might you know the year of your Piccolo snare drum? Mine has the gold badge and what they call milk chocolate interior which I believe would date it to 69' or 70' so I guess what I am trying to determine is if the stick chopper hoops were also available in brass since the stick saver hoops that this came with are brass? If any slingerland expert out there knows of this please let me know as I just want to know if I am wasting my time searching for them and are these rims unique to the Buddy Rich Piccolo snare drum or can I use any eight lug rim from the 60s top and bottom for this snare drum?

Also if anybody knows if Buddy's Piccolo snare drum (at least the first couple he received in 69' cow & wmp) had brass rims on it that would help because if Buddy had steel rims then it would be pointless to seek out brass rims for this snare drum but a tough question to answer unless somebody actually has his Piccolo snare drum to verify this or maybe an old interview where he discusses preferring brass over steel rims, which I have not been able to find any information about the whereabouts of his original two piccolo snares. Thanks, Bob
 

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Morello Man

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In Nov ‘71, BR toured the United Kingdom and, in an interview, said, “I prefer wood because it retains the sound and throws it out whereas metal has a tendency to ring. As a matter of fact, I’m using metal drums at the moment simply because the wooden drums being made in the States are terrible and I haven’t been able to find one to my liking...I’ve had to sacrifice a certain amount of sound that I like in order to compensate for the deadness.” Interestingly, it was during that ‘71 tour, at Ronnie Scott’s, that BR - on the album cover - is shown clearly playing a Fibes snare during that live record session.
 


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