Buddy Rich's 1970's Zildjian cymbals

[Tama CW]

Interesting FaceBook ad on Buddy's cymbals. No idea if the seller's story is true. Do you think Buddy played thse models of Zildjians? Looks to be a 20" Ping Ride and some 14" New Beat hats. An 18" medium thin crash. The others aren't marked. Looks like a pair of 15" hats off to the left. Would New Beats really work in a big band setting?.....unless they were on the lighter side (ie 800/1200 or 900/1200). The Ping Ride sort of makes sense. Just curious if Buddy's cymbal choices are as well documented as say John Bonham? For something like this I'd want Buddy's name engraved on the cymbals...in a way that they could only be Buddy's.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/555133595015311/

 

[drumstuff66]

I don't think most of them are 70's. Looks like post Hollow Logo ink per zenstat's page...'82 or later if I'm correct. Which I'm often not....

 

[Johnny D]

Buddy's cymbals are indeed well documented in several Zildjian Set Up books. This is from the last Set Up book Zildjian did in 1981 and Buddy's set up is pretty accurate, other than the Pang - my understanding is he played a 22" Swish Knocker, which looks to be in the photo sans rivets. His ride varied from a Medium, Ping and Light - always a 20" except Lennie told me he used a 21" Rock Ride at one point. Always A. Zildjians... Back then, you could use A's for literally any kind of music. They were that versatile. In fact, modern K Crashes sound (and are made) more like old A's than old K's but that's for another topic.

As drumstuff said, many of those are not 70s cymbals. He did not play 15" hi hats... 14" New Beats. Would New Beats really work in a big band setting? Sorry, but that made me chuckle Ask any big band drummer and I'm sure they'll give you the answer. Finally, I wouldn't buy them without a certificate of provenance.

 

[EvEnStEvEn]

I'd lean towards the set likely being legit, naturally, the seller's claimed documentation would be a must see.

 

[Tama CW]

I don't think most of them are 70's. Looks like post Hollow Logo ink per zenstat's page...'82 or later if I'm correct. Which I'm often not....

That's true. All those solid logo cymbals above are from the 1982-1992 time frame. Buddy was alive in the mid-80's. But those surely ALL aren't from the 70's as the seller suggests. Some of them do appear to be 70's.

14" new beats in big bands? Depends on the spread imo. Most of them at 950+/1300 or even 1100/1450 would be pretty harsh. As long as the top weight is 750-900 they could work. Anything over that I just find to harsh for swing, jazz, early classic round sound. Those 30's and 40's big bands often used 12" to 13" matched thin high hat pairs - lots of slosh. I don't see heavy new beat pairs being able to do that.

 

[zenstat]

As at June 6, 1980:

 

[Johnny K]

...22" Swish Knocker

Is this the cymbal sound I hear Jimmy Cobb playing on So What? Whatever he's playing it sounds like it has rivets.

I think I've seen most of those at Atomic Music in Beltsville, MD at one time or another. Collectively used, maybe 3-4k?

 

[premierplayer]

Atomic! 30-40 minutes from my house on a no traffic Saturday morning. We should have a DFO hook up there some time. Next stop would be East Coast Drums, then lunch, could be a bunch of $$$ spent, and a good time had!

 

[foxy_shazamtastic]

...22" Swish Knocker

Is this the cymbal sound I hear Jimmy Cobb playing on So What? Whatever he's playing it sounds like it has rivets.

I think I've seen most of those at Atomic Music in Beltsville, MD at one time or another. Collectively used, maybe 3-4k?

That’s a 22” inch old K dawg. This thread is hilarious coming from a place like cymbalholic.

 

[Johnny K]

Atomic! 30-40 minutes from my house on a no traffic Saturday morning. We should have a DFO hook up there some time. Next stop would be East Coast Drums, then lunch, could be a bunch of $$$ spent, and a good time had!

We could rent a practice room at East Coast and have a drum off! LOL

 

[Johnny K]

That’s a 22” inch old K dawg.

So basically one of those vintage cymbals that cost as much as a drum set.

 

[foxy_shazamtastic]

So basically one of those vintage cymbals that cost as much as a drum set.

Haha basically. You’d probably get just as close with the right K Con or Kerope with rivets.

 

[jaymandude]

Haha basically. You’d probably get just as close with the right K Con or Kerope with rivets.

you're not a real cymbalholic after that comment. Permit denied

 

[Joe A]

That’s a 22” inch old K dawg. This thread is hilarious coming from a place like cymbalholic.

It's a product of the buttoned-down nature of CH. A lot of the information is practically privately held in a guild, thanks to the exclusive nature of the forum (it's not even readable by the unwashed, as it were; thankfully zenstat's over here).

 

[CSR]

It's a product of the buttoned-down nature of CH. A lot of the information is practically privately held in a guild, thanks to the exclusive nature of the forum (it's not even readable by the unwashed, as it were; thankfully zenstat's over here).

“Un-washed”. Is that DRY humor?

 

[foxy_shazamtastic]

It's a product of the buttoned-down nature of CH. A lot of the information is practically privately held in a guild, thanks to the exclusive nature of the forum (it's not even readable by the unwashed, as it were; thankfully zenstat's over here).

This is true, I forgot I couldn’t even read it until I joined.

 

[zenstat]

It's a product of the buttoned-down nature of CH. A lot of the information is practically privately held in a guild, thanks to the exclusive nature of the forum (it's not even readable by the unwashed, as it were; thankfully zenstat's over here).

There are reasons why Cymbalholic was "only members can read" just as there are reasons it has gone "read only". But fear not. The info is on its way into the Cymbal Wiki where it will be permanently available to all, whether you are washed or not. The Cymbal Wiki project started out as a place for reconstructing the lost Paiste-Only Wiki and that is getting most of the attention first. This is thanks to a few dedicated souls who are helping me bring it back. Thanks guys.

Paiste - Cymbal

www.cymbal.wiki

Meanwhile, I'm slowly adding generic content like the alloy page which is first up.

Alloys - Cymbal

www.cymbal.wiki

I've got links to the research on my own site in place in the Wiki, and have just now redirected my signature links to go via Cymbal Wiki. I was waiting until I get a bit further along with the next generation restructuring of everything cymbal. So there hasn't been a big launch and fanfare yet. I guess this is it.

And since this is a Buddy Rich cymbals thread, yes there is a plan for a page each in the Wiki for certain famous player/cymbal/recording combinations. The Paiste-Only Wiki had a large amount of work devoted to that. At present my plans are more modest and include the info I've collected up on things like

Now He Sings Now He Sobs -- Roy Haynes -- the Paiste 18" flat ride
Take Five -- Joe Morello -- the late 50s Small Stamp 20" ride cymbal

and then there's Tony Williams...where to begin? All in good time.

Steve Black

Admin, Cymbalholic
Sysop, Cymbal Wiki

 

[Joe A]

Thanks very much! I'll be reading tonight.

 

[CSR]

Great....I washed for nuthin’.