Byzance Foundry Reserve...Success or Dud?

Gcort49

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I have some Byzance in a bag...all Jazz series/dark/dry/flats. I like what Meinl has done with the series.
Since they introduced the Foundry Reserve, I set my sights on picking up a 20 or 22...
I have noticed an influx hitting the pre-owned market. Too soon, IMO, for a 'new' cymbal to be flooding the used market.
Enough to have me thinking, was this roll-out a dud?

Anyone with experience on them....can't seem to find much chatter on the forums or review searches
 

Mcjnic

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I doubt very seriously the cymbals are “duds”.

Cymbals of this caliber are very much a product of artisans.
As such, they are not necessarily appreciated or even understood by the novice.
And for the seasoned artist, the selection is quite limited ... to the point of discomfort.

My guess ... due to the lack of stock, individuals picked up what was locally available or what was in stock online. They got them and within a short time, had buyers remorse ... due to the investment required.

The lack of selection pushed several of the subjects into purchasing cymbals that were AVAILABLE and not hand selected and trialed.

They wished for the feel to be a bit lighter ... or stiffer ... or perhaps a more separate bell ... you get the idea.

That is really not the optimum path for purchases of this type of equipment.
An amp? Sure.
A snare? Sure.
A computer for your DAWS? Sure.

But a freekin hand formed cymbal? Ridiculous thought.

This is my belief on the topic.
 

bongomania

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Pretty much the only marketing I saw for these was from endorsers, so I imagine a bunch of them got free cymbals and are now flipping them.
 

studrum

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I doubt very seriously the cymbals are “duds”.

Cymbals of this caliber are very much a product of artisans.
As such, they are not necessarily appreciated or even understood by the novice.
And for the seasoned artist, the selection is quite limited ... to the point of discomfort.

My guess ... due to the lack of stock, individuals picked up what was locally available or what was in stock online. They got them and within a short time, had buyers remorse ... due to the investment required.

The lack of selection pushed several of the subjects into purchasing cymbals that were AVAILABLE and not hand selected and trialed.

They wished for the feel to be a bit lighter ... or stiffer ... or perhaps a more separate bell ... you get the idea.

That is really not the optimum path for purchases of this type of equipment.
An amp? Sure.
A snare? Sure.
A computer for your DAWS? Sure.

But a freekin hand formed cymbal? Ridiculous thought.

This is my belief on the topic.

Pretty sure I agree with you thoroughly on this. In other words, when people are shelling out that kind of moola on an all-unique musical instrument, they need to actually be in a room with it and play it. Imagine that...
 

GeeDeeEmm

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I've heard the Reserves only on video, but what I hear there is something very special, a tone that lives up to the hype. Some of the most intimate and finely-honed sounds in the industry.

I suspect, though, that those very qualities may be the reason behind their availability on the used market already. The cymbals are obviously very "quiet" and soft-spoken when compared to the regular fare. Their voice is so nice that they almost stand out as solo instruments and not as adaptable to integration within a louder environment. I know this comparison is rather stretched, but using these in a regular time-keeping role would be akin to installing the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in a greasy backyard garage.

Sometimes something that is SO SPECIAL as these severely limits their utility.

GeeDeeEmm
 

halldorl

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I own and use a few BFR’s. 14” hats, 20” and 22” rides. They are very fine instruments and since I got them they have seen daily use more or less. They are not that quiet and pretty “normal” sounding cymbals compared to a lot of Meinl’s dark and trashy offerings. The 20” ride is very versatile and I use it in all kinds of situations while the 22” ride is more in the jazz vein due to it’s lower pitch and spread.

The 18” crash I have is the only one I have not really connected with but I used it on a recording session a few weeks back and I realised it records beautifully.

The bottom line is that these cymbals inspire me. They blend beautifully and in a band setting you realise just how beautiful they are.
 

Gcort49

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I own and use a few BFR’s. 14” hats, 20” and 22” rides. They are very fine instruments and since I got them they have seen daily use more or less. They are not that quiet and pretty “normal” sounding cymbals compared to a lot of Meinl’s dark and trashy offerings. The 20” ride is very versatile and I use it in all kinds of situations while the 22” ride is more in the jazz vein due to it’s lower pitch and spread.

The 18” crash I have is the only one I have not really connected with but I used it on a recording session a few weeks back and I realised it records beautifully.

The bottom line is that these cymbals inspire me. They blend beautifully and in a band setting you realise just how beautiful they are.
Perhaps I am too use to the Paiste 'step on glass' shimmer and sound imbedded in my head for years, but I swear, listening to your video display of these, I hear some similarities....all in a very good way.

You demoed these beautifully (in your video's) and convinced me to pursue them
 

wilcameon

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I have some Byzance in a bag...all Jazz series/dark/dry/flats. I like what Meinl has done with the series.
Since they introduced the Foundry Reserve, I set my sights on picking up a 20 or 22...
I have noticed an influx hitting the pre-owned market. Too soon, IMO, for a 'new' cymbal to be flooding the used market.
Enough to have me thinking, was this roll-out a dud?

Anyone with experience on them....can't seem to find much chatter on the forums or review searches
I made a recent purchase of the 14" hi-hats, the 18" crash and the 22" ride (not the light one) to go with a Meinl 20" flat jazz ride I purchased last year. I play all types of music and the flat ride is my "go-to" cymbal for all jazz gigs. I initially purchased the 14" hats and they sounded amazing with the flat ride. I eventually purchased the Foundry Reserve crash and ride shortly thereafter. I studied, compared and listened to the Foundry Reserves for almost a year and I could not find anything that had the same low pitch voice; however, a few were close.

After having the the cymbals for about a month and gigging with them weekly, I have found them to be very quiet but clear and crisp when they are not played at a loud or high volume. For an orchestral or low volume jazz gig these can't be beat (not literally), in my opinion. I have also noticed that the Foundry Reserves seem to work better as a "family" or "team" of cymbals instead of individually, I guess due to the low volume situation. As noted above, I currently use them for a weekly jazz gig that is a fairly small venue where I can use lots of dynamics when I play. If I ever needed to play loud I would either mic these cymbals (something I have not tried yet) or simply use my Paiste Signatures as a louder configuration.

Anyone considering the purchase of these should keep a few things in mind: 1) Physically go to a good drum shop or music store and ask to listen to them. Listening to a video is not a good way to buy something as important as a cymbal, 2) These don't produce the same tone quality when played at an extremely loud volume. I don't recommend them for most types of loud music. They'd just get lost in the sound of the music. 3) Don't buy these to make them your ONLY set of cymbals. There are lots of places where the Foundry Reserves will NOT work well, such as most rock, gospel, R&B, country or any type of music that can become loud. They don't get above a whisper, by comparison to my other Paiste Signature cymbals. These are outstanding cymbals for lower volume gigs that require high quality sound and dynamics. If you're playing something other than medium volume, moderate swing stuff in a larger venue, this may not be a good investment for you.

Personally, I'm very happy with mine and they perform exceptionally. But they're not my only set of cymbals and I normally pick the right group of cymbal for each gig.
 

Gunnellett

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I made a recent purchase of the 14" hi-hats, the 18" crash and the 22" ride (not the light one) to go with a Meinl 20" flat jazz ride I purchased last year. I play all types of music and the flat ride is my "go-to" cymbal for all jazz gigs. I initially purchased the 14" hats and they sounded amazing with the flat ride. I eventually purchased the Foundry Reserve crash and ride shortly thereafter. I studied, compared and listened to the Foundry Reserves for almost a year and I could not find anything that had the same low pitch voice; however, a few were close.

After having the the cymbals for about a month and gigging with them weekly, I have found them to be very quiet but clear and crisp when they are not played at a loud or high volume. For an orchestral or low volume jazz gig these can't be beat (not literally), in my opinion. I have also noticed that the Foundry Reserves seem to work better as a "family" or "team" of cymbals instead of individually, I guess due to the low volume situation. As noted above, I currently use them for a weekly jazz gig that is a fairly small venue where I can use lots of dynamics when I play. If I ever needed to play loud I would either mic these cymbals (something I have not tried yet) or simply use my Paiste Signatures as a louder configuration.

Anyone considering the purchase of these should keep a few things in mind: 1) Physically go to a good drum shop or music store and ask to listen to them. Listening to a video is not a good way to buy something as important as a cymbal, 2) These don't produce the same tone quality when played at an extremely loud volume. I don't recommend them for most types of loud music. They'd just get lost in the sound of the music. 3) Don't buy these to make them your ONLY set of cymbals. There are lots of places where the Foundry Reserves will NOT work well, such as most rock, gospel, R&B, country or any type of music that can become loud. They don't get above a whisper, by comparison to my other Paiste Signature cymbals. These are outstanding cymbals for lower volume gigs that require high quality sound and dynamics. If you're playing something other than medium volume, moderate swing stuff in a larger venue, this may not be a good investment for you.

Personally, I'm very happy with mine and they perform exceptionally. But they're not my only set of cymbals and I normally pick the right group of cymbal for each gig.
Great report. I like hearing are a good fit for lower volume playing. I play mostly classic rock and blues type of stuff which it sounds like you don't really recommend these for but we practice in a very small space where volume is an issue.
 

Jorn

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I’ve got 15, 18, 20, 22.
good cymbals yes, holiday grail no.
 

anthony marquart

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The Meinl “thing” is maybe not yet well understood. I just switched to Meinl and it took a bit of a transition period. Mine are the dual series but they are not very loud either. But they blend so well with music it’s amazing. Alone, the sound is something I had to get used to.
 

dustjacket

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I'm smitten with mine. My second set was where the magic was. First time around, I liked but not loved. Six months later, tried another batch and I'm ecstatic and relieved I did. I had 15 hats and 20/22 Light Rides come in last month and they feel and sound like they were made just for me. These will be handed down to my son when the time comes.
 

Neal Pert

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Since we don't know sales numbers we don't know how many "should" be on the used market. I think it's really hard to know what constitutes success, especially for a smaller company. People who've reviewed them online seem to be pretty enthusiastic about them, but you don't have to spend much time online to realize that message boards don't necessarily reflect what's actually being sold and what people actually like.
 

Santino

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A lot of what I'm seeing used are "open box" or floor demos from shops. Haven't seen a lot of owner turnover.
 

bongomania

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“Open box” usually means customer returns. Occasionally it means the store opened it to demo, but ime that’s much less often.
 

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