Can I reduce the heavy wash of a very heavy ride (holes, putty, chewing gum, I dunno)

OldSticks

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In 1980 I bought a Zildjian gong. 18"/2612g, lathed brass, with none of the different color motif you'd expect to see in the middle of a gong. Just brass. It had 2 small holes on the bent side, and a hole in the center. Why did I buy it? I don't know....it looked cool and I had a few extra dollars. Billy Cobham will always be my favorite. Mahavishnu Orcestra opened for Frank Zappa and the Mothers, several years in a row. I'd never heard of MO or Billy. It blew me away (and made me feel very inferior. Made me practice more!) If you ever saw Mahavishnu Orchestra, the show started with John McLaughlin, dressed in white, came to the front of the stage alone and asked for a moment of silence, and everybody shut up! Quietly, the other musicians walked into position in semi darkness, and just before Billy sat down, he hit the gong in the silent room to start the first song! I just got a chill up my spine remembering,
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but I digress. I hung the gong vertically for a while, but never really played it (I had "roadies" that carried and set-up, that was great). Fast forward to last fall, music store guys couldn't venture a guess at identifying or explaining this odd piece. There was no history of listings in catalogs. A Zildjian rep (Kim, I think) called me, said it was a "Turkish gong", couldn't tell me much more. Sorry, that's a long intro......When mounted on the middle hole, like a cymbal, there's a strong, clear ping. I would include it as a 2nd ride playing original music (not covers). The stopper is an incredible roar of wash. Does anybody have any ideas about how I might reduce the wash? I would even consider drilling holes, but I don't know how or where to start. I promise I'll keep my intros shorter. Much love, JM
 

JDA

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1st of all Much Love JM I don't believe those were brass... They were...as the Zildjian cymbal of the time was. B20.

the only guy that comes to mind that mounted a gong flat and rode it was
Fredy Studer Paiste artist. (it was a Paiste..)

 
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CC Cirillo

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Madonna would use gum; I’ll suggest some experimenting with moongel.

Gongs: everyone that uses one seems to have roadies.
 
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lossforgain

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It could be a real shame to drill extra holes, plus I don't think that would get you what you want. One strange way to experiment might be to lay a plastic ring on top (Aquarian Studio ring, cut out piece of drum head, whatever you have) and see if that gets you results. I have a 10" Aquarian ring I have occasionally put on a ride cymbal when teaching to help the wash get out of the way so that I can show a student the individual notes more easily. This experiment is not permanent and could tell you if it's even possible to make that cymbal sound like you are thinking.
 

JDA

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already has the center hole

I think you'll need to develop the touch and experiment with stick to get something sensible out out it
have to learn to control it with your hand
hang some chain/rivets on it will will tamp it down slightly
can even hang a piece of leather across it from the stem
as you muffle a tympani
 

Drm1979

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You could try some thick foam tape on the underside closer to the edge. I know that our local walmart carrys stick back foam in the craft department. Maybe start with something like that.
 

JDA

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once you're done muffling it it's going to sound like 20" dead ping ride;
or maybe tapping on an anvil.

Use it - even set up flat- as intended. a drama-dramatic effect. Just hit the edge as an accent
like Fredy does above
 
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Pat A Flafla

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Probably not the answer most people are looking for, but: different sticks. Sort of like responding to "How can I get my kid's principal to quit calling me?" with "Get a different kid." Except sticks are way easier to swap out than progenies. I have a cymbal that sounds just OK with my regular sticks, but sounds great with the Erskine Ride Stick. Another adjustment would be touch. There's a sound that beast is trying to make, and a sound you're hoping to get out of it. If those two are too far apart, and a lighter touch and pingier sticks aren't options, then it just might be the wrong cymbal.

BTW- We had one of those in my high school band hall, and I always thought it would be cool to mount one as a ride.
 

Cliff DeArment

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In the 70's, in my area, every high school had one. Never liked them myself. The hardest part was making it stop! Took two hands and a knee to shut it up. Needs a lot of weight to do it.
 

Cauldronics

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In 1980 I bought a Zildjian gong. 18"/2612g, lathed brass, with none of the different color motif you'd expect to see in the middle of a gong. Just brass. It had 2 small holes on the bent side, and a hole in the center. Why did I buy it? I don't know....it looked cool and I had a few extra dollars. Billy Cobham will always be my favorite. Mahavishnu Orcestra opened for Frank Zappa and the Mothers, several years in a row. I'd never heard of MO or Billy. It blew me away (and made me feel very inferior. Made me practice more!) If you ever saw Mahavishnu Orchestra, the show started with John McLaughlin, dressed in white, came to the front of the stage alone and asked for a moment of silence, and everybody shut up! Quietly, the other musicians walked into position in semi darkness, and just before Billy sat down, he hit the gong in the silent room to start the first song! I just got a chill up my spine remembering, View attachment 488045 View attachment 488046 View attachment 488047 but I digress. I hung the gong vertically for a while, but never really played it (I had "roadies" that carried and set-up, that was great). Fast forward to last fall, music store guys couldn't venture a guess at identifying or explaining this odd piece. There was no history of listings in catalogs. A Zildjian rep (Kim, I think) called me, said it was a "Turkish gong", couldn't tell me much more. Sorry, that's a long intro......When mounted on the middle hole, like a cymbal, there's a strong, clear ping. I would include it as a 2nd ride playing original music (not covers). The stopper is an incredible roar of wash. Does anybody have any ideas about how I might reduce the wash? I would even consider drilling holes, but I don't know how or where to start. I promise I'll keep my intros shorter. Much love, JM
The first thought I had was cutting and mounting a foam disc (or square, any shape actually) underneath this plate on the stand. I don't know how thick the foam would need to be... whatever shortens the roar to a manageable amount. Using foam, you wouldn't need to do any work on the cymbal or alter its Turkish gongness. I wouldn't want to take a piece like that out of its original form.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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I'd start with some painter's tape. Won't leave residue and easy to remove/reposition. I would not mod the gong......seems cool and sell-able.....
 

RIDDIM

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1st of all Much Love JM I don't believe those were brass... They were...as the Zildjian cymbal of the time was. B20.

the only guy that comes to mind that mounted a gong flat and rode it was
Fredy Studer Paiste artist. (it was a Paiste..)

The first person I saw do that was Bozzio.
 
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Seb77

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Mounting a ride near vertically alway seems to reduce wash. The 70s style. Top felt and wingnut might suffice.
 

JDA

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Think that' would be mounted at the level Fredy Studer has there. You don't want to tip it too much . maybe 30-35 degree.
 

Matched Gripper

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In 1980 I bought a Zildjian gong. 18"/2612g, lathed brass, with none of the different color motif you'd expect to see in the middle of a gong. Just brass. It had 2 small holes on the bent side, and a hole in the center. Why did I buy it? I don't know....it looked cool and I had a few extra dollars. Billy Cobham will always be my favorite. Mahavishnu Orcestra opened for Frank Zappa and the Mothers, several years in a row. I'd never heard of MO or Billy. It blew me away (and made me feel very inferior. Made me practice more!) If you ever saw Mahavishnu Orchestra, the show started with John McLaughlin, dressed in white, came to the front of the stage alone and asked for a moment of silence, and everybody shut up! Quietly, the other musicians walked into position in semi darkness, and just before Billy sat down, he hit the gong in the silent room to start the first song! I just got a chill up my spine remembering, View attachment 488045 View attachment 488046 View attachment 488047 but I digress. I hung the gong vertically for a while, but never really played it (I had "roadies" that carried and set-up, that was great). Fast forward to last fall, music store guys couldn't venture a guess at identifying or explaining this odd piece. There was no history of listings in catalogs. A Zildjian rep (Kim, I think) called me, said it was a "Turkish gong", couldn't tell me much more. Sorry, that's a long intro......When mounted on the middle hole, like a cymbal, there's a strong, clear ping. I would include it as a 2nd ride playing original music (not covers). The stopper is an incredible roar of wash. Does anybody have any ideas about how I might reduce the wash? I would even consider drilling holes, but I don't know how or where to start. I promise I'll keep my intros shorter. Much love, JM
If you want to use it as a ride, it seems that the best option would be to send it to a cymbal smith and let him/her customize it for you. My understanding is that they can re-lathe and hammer to create what want and like to work with Zildjian B20.
 

cymbal.wiki

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These B20 gongs have been around since at least 1949. The WFL 1949 catalog gives prices

1949-gongs.jpg


Did you buy it brand new in 1980 or could it have been older? From what I'm seeing it might be late 1950s but without some better quality photos or hands on it is hard to be sure.

I haven't ever seen a Gong (also called Tam Tam) that small. I've recorded them from 22" to 28" and 1949 (T2 stamp) to the 1970s and have yet to see an 18". According to the Zildjian models history they haven't produced an 18", although that could be an omission. Gongs are all 20" or larger until 1998 when they came out with a few mini gongs (10", 12" 15").

The weight 2612g is extra heavy for an 18" diameter cymbal (gong or otherwise). They get up to 2300g for a Band or Concert cymbal from the late 1970s. Any chance your weight measurement was inaccurate? Or perhaps a problem with conversion from pounds to grams? Just curious. Extra heavy cymbals do tend to have lots of sustain so I can imagine what you are up against getting the sound you want.
 

cymbal.wiki

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So 18" is an omission from the Zildjian models document. Thanks Joe. I know there are omissions because I've found 6 or 7 others.

Given that the user can specify weight desired, this 18" in question might have been ordered Extra Heavy.
 


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