Can you name a popular and commercially successful player who isn't a highly talented player?

DanRH

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Its rare. But I would say my short list is as follows:
Charlie Watts - what he does for the Stones can only be done by him. Mad respect for the man.

Lars - Ive heard greatness but also really sub par playing at times.

Mick Fleetwood - Again, works like no one else in FM but...

I know Ill ruffle some feathers with this post.

I really cant think of any others.
 

Dave HCV

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bob said:
top level player , who isn't that great of player ????
then he wouldn't be top level , or am i missing something ?
My interpretation of the subject line is "a popular and commercially successful player who isn't a highly talented player." If that is Dan's intent, then there are and have been quite a few. Think back to the discussions we've had about the list of the 30 wealthiest drummers. They were all drummers who were members of very successful rock and pop bands. Completely absent were jazz drummers, session drummers (who can play many styles very well), etc. With that in mind, there have been and always will be drummers (and other musicians) that are "top level" because they are a great fit with their bands, not necessarily because they are gifted musicians.
 

DanRH

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Dave HCV said:
top level player , who isn't that great of player ????
then he wouldn't be top level , or am i missing something ?
My interpretation of the subject line is "a popular and commercially successful player who isn't a highly talented player." If that is Dan's intent, then there are and have been quite a few. Think back to the discussions we've had about the list of the 30 wealthiest drummers. They were all drummers who were members of very successful rock and pop bands. Completely absent were jazz drummers, session drummers (who can play many styles very well), etc. With that in mind, there have been and always will be drummers (and other musicians) that are "top level" because they are a great fit with their bands, not necessarily because they are gifted musicians.
Exactly Dave. I'm going to plagiarize you and edit my thread header ;-)
 

BennyK

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Good session players know the difference between quality and quantity and they have the tools to articulate this knowledge . This makes them commercially successful because they're called on to do just that .

Knowing where and when we fit and having the humility to act accordingly is also a big talent , and I happen to believe that very few of us can be all things to all people . Purdie and Gadd , Mallaber and Blaine are exceptions .

Some famous producers are always on the lookout for that " special something " they consider to be the creative spark which puts a tune on the charts and translates into money, which, whether you like it or not is the necessary evil we all in one way or another must serve .

What many of us as drummers consider talent doesn't always follow the same definition used by others . I learned this when playing congas and percussion with an assortment of kit drummers sitting next to me .

Classical and jazz can't be as broadly defined by commercial viability , but to my understanding those are two categories where drummers may be judged by talents more technical and academic in nature . Supernaturally gifted players can be found driving cabs or sweeping floors in any major city .

So, how do you define talent ?
 

DanRH

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BennyK said:
Good session players know the difference between quality and quantity and they have the tools to articulate this knowledge . This makes them commercially successful because they're called on to do just that .

Knowing where and when we fit and having the humility to act accordingly is also a big talent , and I happen to believe that very few of us can be all things to all people . Purdie and Gadd , Mallaber and Blaine are exceptions .

Some famous producers are always on the lookout for that " special something " they consider to be the creative spark which puts a tune on the charts and translates into money, which, whether you like it or not is the necessary evil we all in one way or another must serve .

So, how do you define talent ?
For me it's being solid and playing for the song. Not over playing (unless the music calls for it). A prime example of someone who had chops for days would be Gavin Harrison with Porcupine tree. And I totally agree with you on Gary Mallaber. And the rest you mentioned. But we digress...
 

ThomFloor

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Hemant* said:
Graeme Edge from the Moody Blues.
Graeme Edge....yep, just another guy who does what he's supposed to.....he plays for the song,.... just like Ringo, Watts, Fleetwood. Other drummers so often knock their 'talent', I guess because they don't impress and flex their chops during their drum parts. But their 'talent' is actually playing the right drum parts. And Ringo and Fleetwood are surprisingly hard to copy exactly what they are doing.
 

BennyK

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Digress ?

.... me ?

Good topic near and dear to my heart, thank you .
 

BennyK

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Finest drumming from a guy I'll bet no one has ever heard of - Bill Berg on Dylan's ' Tangled up in Blue ' .
 

Bri6366

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Peter Criss comes to mind and is usually the whipping boy for threads like this. I would say most pop/rock drummers fall under this category. There is nothing wrong with that and in most cases, I like the original version of a song much better than versions with technically superior replacement musicians. Sometimes it comes down to the style and the flare they have. Case in point, listen to Kiss Alive tracks like Got to Choose and compare it to Eric Singer today.
 

Paradiddle

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How can Charlie not be massively talented if he's the only guy that can play the Stones songs correctly? And don't be duped by Fleetwood Macs records - Mick can play for real - and has chops.

The older I get the more i'm into play songs rather then trying to impress some other drummer with a flamadidle.

You wanna talk a guy that doesn't have monster chops and is "famous" - let's talk Peart.

:)
 

dboomer

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BennyK said:
Finest drumming from a guy I'll bet no one has ever heard of - Bill Berg on Dylan's ' Tangled up in Blue ' .
As in Billy Berg from Flim & the BBs? Outstanding player.
 

BennyK

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dboomer said:
Finest drumming from a guy I'll bet no one has ever heard of - Bill Berg on Dylan's ' Tangled up in Blue ' .
As in Billy Berg from Flim & the BBs? Outstanding player.
I'm not entirely sure about his bio. I'm only familiar with his work on Blood on the Tracks . I figured it was Keltner .
 

Pocketplayer

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Usually these threads end in flames...and I am glad no Ringo votes thus far.
A friend of mine asked Greg Bissonnete about Neil Peart...the proverbial,
"Is Neil the greatest drummer?" coming from a non-drummer and Greg had
THE BEST answer..."Neil is the best drummer for RUSH!" I love that.

With that said, Phil Rudd is the best drummer for AC/DC but severally limited
to playing 2 & 4 for 40 years and making about $40 million bucks!

Same w/Charlie...but much more creative music than AC/DC...I give it to the
brothers...they stay with what they do well...but limited music. At least Charlie
ventures out with his solo and own band to jazz, while Phil's solo LP is basically
AC/DC...and one cut exactly like AC/DC!

Some of the late 80's hair band drummers...Fred Courey was not primed for studio
and I am almost positive had some ghost drumming...in fact, Greg B did A LOT
of ghost drumming if truth be told for a lot of bands in the 80's. Sorry to pop that
bubble for some...
 

jakeo

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I was in the car recently and the Eagles Lyin Eyes came on - I was thinking how perfect the playing was - and how great a song. As much as I appreciate El Negro, Tony, etc - it's the great songs that seem stick with me and affect me emotionally. Another example is Kunkel on Fire and Rain.
 

Paradiddle

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jakeo said:
I was in the car recently and the Eagles Lyin Eyes came on - I was thinking how perfect the playing was - and how great a song. As much as I appreciate El Negro, Tony, etc - it's the great songs that seem stick with me and affect me emotionally. Another example is Kunkel on Fire and Rain.
Totally agree.
 

JDA

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How talented do you have to be to play a drum part on a one or two or three hit wonder song?

It's a drum part. You can teach a cat. Sometimes..

200% of situations such as those are luck. and nothing wrong with that. It just wasn't you (or me) was it.
ie
...not the drummer on "Sugar, Sugar" etc etc nor "mony, mony' nor a thousand other 'hits'.
So what

The point is being in situations where you are the drummer.
That's half (if not more) than it right there.
Showing up being right time right place ad infinitude

the best part/story/tale is of a guy that played recorded- a mistake once and had to repeat it for 30 years..
 

bbunks

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BennyK said:
Finest drumming from a guy I'll bet no one has ever heard of - Bill Berg on Dylan's ' Tangled up in Blue ' .
As in Billy Berg from Flim & the BBs? Outstanding player.
I'm not entirely sure about his bio. I'm only familiar with his work on Blood on the Tracks . I figured it was Keltner .





Yes, he was with Flim and the BBs.
 

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