Carmine vs Tommy

bolweevil

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In 1986, I asked Tommy Aldridge about "Bark at the Moon" and he told me that Ozzy had the engineer erase the second bass drum track, so the entire album is missing his left bass drum and that is why the licks sound odd and off balance. Tommy played on "Bark at the Moon" 100%. Carmine came into the picture after the album was already done and while he started the tour, he was fired by Sharon early into the tour and Tommy returned to the band to finish the tour.
Does anybody know of any specific songs/sections where the missing left kick drum is missing? I'm interested in hearing some examples but don't want to sift through the whole album.
 

Han

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Carmine seems to have his place in Rock & Roll history for sure. He comes from a time when click tracks were not being used and his playing on some early stuff...Beck, Bogart, and Appice was fiery and like a train almost coming off the rails. That was the charm of his playing. He was going for it!!! That kind of playing didn't wear well as the years went by and recording methods changed. These days Carmine strikes me like a caricature of himself and a rock drumming legend. There isn't really a place in the upper levels of rock drumming for a guy who plays like him. He's sloppy and he seems to be going for "show" most of the time while his execution suffers a lot. It's a little sad actually.
An old friend of mine produced a lot of great recordings and he used Tommy Aldridge on a few of them. He told me Tommy was a total pro and he liked his playing very much. He said Tommy played a little on the front side of the time but not enough that it was ever a problem. My friend had nothing but good things to say about his playing.
 

kevmill70

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Does anybody know of any specific songs/sections where the missing left kick drum is missing? I'm interested in hearing some examples but don't want to sift through the whole album.
I want to say "No Bone Moves" for example - at the end near the fade out especially
 

georgelawrence

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I heard a young Tommy Aldridge several times before he landed his first recording artist gig with Black Oak Arkansas. Tommy lived in Pearl MS. at that time. I was in high school in '71 - '72 and would sneak into this club named BJ's in my hometown Jackson Mississippi to watch him play with a local band called Milk and Honey. I also saw the same band open for Steppenwolf in the Jackson Coliseum. Great show. Tommy had a brand new set of Ludwigs with the double bass drums. Several of the guys in that band played with me later. Tommy had great time back then and has always been a solid drummer, not to mention a great soloist and great recording session drummer. That is the reason that he played on so many landmark albums with ground breaking rock stars. Go listen to Bark at the Moon and tell me what Carmine was hearing that I'm not. Carmine is/was a great drummer and a good singer. Tommy has said in the past that Carmine was a major influence. It's a shame that God put Carmine's fart hole where his mouth is supposed to be :). I had to deal with him once professionally as a drum shop owner. Not a gratifying experience. I avoided that situation afterwards.

Trying to get to the bottom of this. Carmine Appice has always struck me as a jack ass and I can’t say enough good things about Tommy Aldridge but this really bugs me.
So is Appice saying he actually played on Bark at the Moon, or what are his “studio tricks” he alludes to? The drumming on that album is awesome.

 
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RIDDIM

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That was roughly the time Jake E. Lee had problems being in the Ozzy band. I think he started on this album, co-wrote a lot of Ultimate Sin, and then got the boot from Sharon. Apparently she was very difficult to deal with back then. I've gotten the feeling it was somewhere in between what she saw as protecting Ozzy from strong minded players she was worried would take credit and royalties from him (even if they were deserved), or she was simply large and in charge ruling with an iron fist. Either way, I think she's a pretty intense and ruthless businesswoman.
- Well, she is Don Arden's daughter.
 

JDA

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I don't know why but I said " yeah I'll go"... It was a Drum Clinic held in a suburban High School little (big) theatre.

Carmine came out with Light Show maybe even smoke bomb show playing an opening solo.
Ok.
Must of been 76 or 78 and I was studying jazz..

Question period came up and from way in the back I raised my hand.
He called on me.

I asked him if he could demonstrate " 3 strokes per hand" roll. You know like RRRLLL real fast... It must have been on my mind that week..

His reply back was in front of a room of people
" You must be thinking of Louis Bellson. Please go or check out, one of his clinics"


lol..I remember he said Louie Bellson. Oh that was crazy of me lol
 
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MrDrums2112

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Carmine seems like a very nice guy to me, and his Realistic Rock book was fantastic. Both are great drummers.
 

Slingwig26

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Trying to get to the bottom of this. Carmine Appice has always struck me as a jack ass and I can’t say enough good things about Tommy Aldridge but this really bugs me.
So is Appice saying he actually played on Bark at the Moon, or what are his “studio tricks” he alludes to? The drumming on that album is awesome.

I’m not familiar with Tommy other than being in Yamaha ads in the 80’s and in Whitesnake. I have seen Carmine in a clinic in 82 and live with Ted Nugent. I thought he was great. I met him at the clinic and found him to be personable, if not confident! Hahaha. But, he literally wrote the book on hard rock drumming and I went through it with my drum teacher in high school. I have Vanilla Fudge and BBA albums and thought they were great. The Ozzy stuff is quite a drama, eh? I like the first 2 Ozzy records and just Bark at the Moon title track and that’s about it with Ozzy. So in conclusion....Carmine over Tommy*
*= past performance does not guarantee future results, your opinion may differ. Peace & Love, y’all!
 

Prufrock

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I must need more coffee this morning. When I clicked on this thread I thought it was arguing which opera is better.

For the record, I'd take Tommy over Carmen, hands down. Better drumming. ;-)
 

Skinsmannn

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Carmine lost all respect for me when he endorsed Mattell Synsonics Drums.
Clown.
 

dcrigger

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Carmine lost all respect for me when he endorsed Mattell Synsonics Drums.
Clown.
Two thoughts - why?

1. How is promoting a toy that might inspire interest in drumming to the general public a bad thing? Is our infatuation with our serious musical "bad boy" personas so all important - that any breaking from those "roles" is then deemed "clownish".

But more importantly, speaking as a life long, financially struggling working musician....

2. What's wrong with collecting some of that absurdly long mass consumer market money when given the opportunity to take? Do you realize that a featured or speaking role in a national TV ad campaign can easily buy you a HOUSE? That's money to hire extra help... supplement your next album budget... and on and on. What sense would it make to leave money like that on the table (if you need or could use it) just because it might not seem... cool?

Fact is: The romance of being a struggling artist in reality is little more than an epic, lifelong PITA.

BTW Carmine wasn't the only one to a sign up for some of that long Mattel cash...


 

bpaluzzi

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Two thoughts - why?

1. How is promoting a toy that might inspire interest in drumming to the general public a bad thing? Is our infatuation with our serious musical "bad boy" personas so all important - that any breaking from those "roles" is then deemed "clownish".

But more importantly, speaking as a life long, financially struggling working musician....

2. What's wrong with collecting some of that absurdly long mass consumer market money when given the opportunity to take? Do you realize that a featured or speaking role in a national TV ad campaign can easily buy you a HOUSE? That's money to hire extra help... supplement your next album budget... and on and on. What sense would it make to leave money like that on the table (if you need or could use it) just because it might not seem... cool?

Fact is: The romance of being a struggling artist in reality is little more than an epic, lifelong PITA.

BTW Carmine wasn't the only one to a sign up for some of that long Mattel cash...


Agreed with everything you just said. A sure-fire way to tell that someone hasn't ever been an actual working musician is the first time they begrudge someone ANY WAY of making money doing it.
And besides, that 4-pad Synsonics drum pad was actually pretty cool. It was the first electronic drums I ever used. Fell in love with the sound design aspect of it, and haven't stopped since.
 

DamnSingerAlsoDrums

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Carmine may be an a$$, but I can't thank him and VF enough for this video of the "Man! The acid's just kicked in..." variety that gave me and my friends many good laughs over the years... Plus, it was the inspiration for other drummers memes such as the Korean drummer an this other dude who appeared in a drum battle w/Kevin in The Office. Mr. Appice, I salute and thank you.
It's like they're driving down a canyon road at a 100 miles an hour. With two wheels in the gravel at every turn but still somehow manage to reach the bottom unscathed. Now I'm not advocating neither playing nor driving impaired, but... This is still impressive for what it is... And how fitting that four guys barely hangin' on to reality are somehow nailing a song called "you keep me hangin' on". There is some weird genius at play here, on many levels.
 
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Houndog

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Carmine may be an a$$, but I can't thank him and VF enough for this video of the "Man! The acid's just kicked in..." variety that gave me and my friends many good laughs over the years... Plus, it was the inspiration for other drummers memes such as the Korean drummer an this other dude who appeared in a drum battle w/Kevin in The Office. Mr. Appice, I salute and thank you.
He kicked ass , showmanship is part of the gig eh . And hey , he got camera time ....
I don't care about the rest, he kicks ass.....
 

Dumpy

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Carmine lost all respect for me when he endorsed Mattell Synsonics Drums.
Clown.
I think I speak for many that most any professional musician would take the extra money and exposure to endorse a toy. It’s the sign that you have arrived. And as @dcrigger has shown with the youtube ads, Buddy Rich and Nigel Olsson took the extra cake, as well. Believe me, I would easily sacrifice my “artistic integrity” for a few bucks, especially if it meant that Dumpy was well known enough to be asked to endorse a drum toy. Alas, that ship has done sailed. Artistic integrity is still intact.
 


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