Change my mind - Die cast hoops suck on snare drums

paul

DFO Veteran
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
2,733
Reaction score
513
Location
Lewisville, TX
I have DC's on all my snares except a 65 Rogers Powertone. I installed them on a Ludwig 8x14 and an RK 6x14, and have never regretted it. Also have them on a DW Craviotto 6.5x14. Rim shots, cross sticks, and holding tune are the main reasons for me.

Honestly, I became a DC fan with my first set of Gretsch drums back in 1966.
 

hsosdrum

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
300
Reaction score
437
My 1984-vintage Gretsch USA 4158 snare had die-cast hoops and that drum perfectly matched the over-all sound of the full Gretsch USA kit that it was a part of. I play tons of rimshots and didn't think that snare needed to sound any more "open" than it did with the die-casts.

More recently my Ludwig LB416BT brass-on-brass Black Beauty also came with die-cast hoops and it also sounds perfect. The hoops make the drum sound more "polite", controlling overtones and resulting in a very musical sound.

However, the reissue wood Rogers Dyna-Sonic that I bought last December wouldn't sound right if I fitted it with a die-cast batter hoop. The steel hoops really let that drum sing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JDA

swayed1

Very well Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Messages
500
Reaction score
44
Location
MD
So many great and mixed responses. I am a live player and don’t do much studio work. My preference is for wood snares and I guess I just never found that sweet spot that some do with DCRs. I do love them on my Gretsch toms tho! The 302s are double flange and I swapped out the SQ2 “hella hoops” for some generic triple flangers. After the switch both of them immediately sounded and FELT better and more natural to me. I think since the SQ2 is a vintage maple shell the DCs are to its detriment. It doesn’t have overtones and doesn’t need to be any more “focused”. If it makes you happy it can’t be that bad. To each their own!

Be excellent to one another.
 

JDA

DFO Star
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
16,991
Reaction score
5,743
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
I am a live player and don’t do much studio work.
I didn't (either) get the relevance(of that comment)- to each his own
- DCs Live kill...especially outdoors!!

(and that may be where all future gigs reside !!0
But I can understand you liking the 302s on your G snare..
I have yet to be in the same room! w/ 302s..(lol
 

aparker2005

DFO Master
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
3,828
Reaction score
546
Die casts on all of my snares except my acro and pearl student steel. 2.3 triple flange on the reso side of my bell brass and black beauty though
 

repete

This one goes to eleven
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
5,252
Reaction score
1,107
Location
south florida
Most of my snares are wood and while I could live with either types of hoops my preference is DC hoops on those. My others snares are aluminum and steel and the DC hoops just dry them out too much.
 

Roosto

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
103
Reaction score
46
Location
Sunny Southern California
I had a 8 x 14 Gretsch wood, I loved that drum. But I would never put die cast on a Supra! So it depends. Also depends on my mood. Have you tried S-hoops? Have an S-hood on a 5 x 14 maple, nice tone.
 

JazzDrumGuy

DFO Star
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
9,449
Reaction score
1,844
Location
Pebble Beach, CA
I like diecast on my vintage Gretsch snares. I keep hearing about the boxy sound but I don't have that problem. I've tried them on my black beauties and Supras but they don't sound good. I think it chokes the drum too much. They also don't sound good on my Slingerland snares. I have a set on my 5 by 5x14 DW Maple and it sounds amazing. But I put them on my 5x14 and 6.5x14 DW Craviottos and they didn't sound good. I have a modern Gretsch 4x14 that came with die casts but it sounds better with triple flange. I have a 3x13 Ludwig Maple and 3x13 Black Beauty and for some reason diecasts sound great on those. There's no rhyme or reason. I have a 50s Gretsch 6.5x14 with repro stick choppers and it sounds real nice. I also put them on a 1920s solid Maple Ludwig and it has a great tone. Do what works for you.....
 

drummingbulldog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
254
Reaction score
163
Location
Jacksonville, FL
They're not for you but they don't suck. Some shells don't work for having dc hoops. Some shells come alive with them. With correct tuning & playing they sound & play great. They stay in tune longer in my experience. Also, the cross stick rimshots are much easier to play. Good for studio recording for the above reasons. They are heavier & more expensive. If you bend one you kinda need to just get a replacement. Most of my snares have them. If you play hard rimshots they can hurt you. Overall, diecast hoops are nice.
 

MagnusNordén

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
74
Reaction score
31
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
... Noble & Cooley dropped die cast hoops several years ago on their SS snares. ...
This is incorrect, as is evident from NC's own website, see


"We offer triple flanged, die-cast and wood hoops. We routinely get asked why we no longer offer die-cast hoops. The answer is we do still offer die-cast hoops, but the trend lately in the industry has been to use triple flanged, so by default, most drums go out with those."

AFAIK, what happened was that NC used to source their diecast hoops from a US supplier, using their own (NC's) moulds. Then, some 15 years ago, the US supplier went out of business. NC used the remaining stocks of diecast hoops, and when that ran out, they started using aftermarket diecast hoops. This seems to be the background behind the rumour of them dropping diecast hoops.

Personally, I thought I didn't like diecast hoops on snare drums until I got a 7x14 NC SS Maple snare some months ago. It came with diecast hoops, and this almost made me decide not to buy it. But, wow, am I glad I did! This is a fantastic drum, and the diecast hoops gives it a fabulously focused and snappy sound. So, I have definitely changed my opinion about diecast hoops on snare drums...

/Magnus
 

Seb77

DFO Veteran
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
2,317
Reaction score
928
Location
Germany
One more thing: if you swap hoops, consider using different hoops top and bottom. Often, the bottom (wire) sound benefits from a lighter hoop. I noticed this with a wood hoop snare: I liked a dc on top, but not on the bottom; the whole character of the drum changed.
Several posts (in other threads at least) mention keeping a triple flange hoop on the bottom; seemingly nobody uses a dc hoop on the bottom and a triple flange hoop on the top.
 

Markkuliini

DFO Veteran
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
2,753
Reaction score
1,186
Location
Sweden/Finland
Generally I don’t like them on snare drums and I wrote them off for many years but I had to eat my hat when I got my solid Tama Star Maple snare and my Gretsch USA Bell Brass. I always try different hoops on new snare drums but those two just sounded way better with the DC’s to my ears. On the Tama solid I run a die-cast on top, triple flange on bottom.
Gretsch bell brass changed my mind too, it just sounds the best with the die casts it came with.
It really depends on the drum. I prefer triple flanged maybe about on 80% of snares, but when diecastswork, they really work.
My most recent die cast swap happened with anew wooden Rogers Dynasonic 14x6,5. I think that the factory hoop is thin 1,6 mm triple flanged and it sounded really good with that. But I preferred it with diecast hoop on top so that's how I'm running in now, even though some purists might think that's nuts.
 

halldorl

DFO Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
2,568
Reaction score
1,982
Location
Iceland
My most recent die cast swap happened with anew wooden Rogers Dynasonic 14x6,5. I think that the factory hoop is thin 1,6 mm triple flanged and it sounded really good with that. But I preferred it with diecast hoop on top so that's how I'm running in now, even though some purists might think that's nuts.
The Tama steambent Maple loves that too. Kinda best of both worlds. A bit more open but has the focus and bite from the DC. Copeland agrees also :cool:

I actually found out by accident. I had changed to triple flange but found the drum to weak sounding (if that’s a term) and was in the process of changing back to DC’s. I had finished changing the top hoop and decided to play it a bit and never looked back.
 

Mcjnic

DFO Master
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
3,191
Reaction score
1,835
This is incorrect, as is evident from NC's own website, see


"We offer triple flanged, die-cast and wood hoops. We routinely get asked why we no longer offer die-cast hoops. The answer is we do still offer die-cast hoops, but the trend lately in the industry has been to use triple flanged, so by default, most drums go out with those."

AFAIK, what happened was that NC used to source their diecast hoops from a US supplier, using their own (NC's) moulds. Then, some 15 years ago, the US supplier went out of business. NC used the remaining stocks of diecast hoops, and when that ran out, they started using aftermarket diecast hoops. This seems to be the background behind the rumour of them dropping diecast hoops.

Personally, I thought I didn't like diecast hoops on snare drums until I got a 7x14 NC SS Maple snare some months ago. It came with diecast hoops, and this almost made me decide not to buy it. But, wow, am I glad I did! This is a fantastic drum, and the diecast hoops gives it a fabulously focused and snappy sound. So, I have definitely changed my opinion about diecast hoops on snare drums...

/Magnus
Nick and I spent quite a bit of time discussing hoops and drums a few years ago. They built several custom drums for me and in the course of too many emails and phone conversations, Nick discussed the details of his decisions behind these. He went into depth on the pricing moves with me and shared some decision paths and even some test videos.

He said when they were adjusting the prices for the SS, they had to cut some areas. One was the hoops. Die cast were more costly. But he was very clear that they had been looking at removing the die cast hoops and building the drums with triple flange because it opens the drum up quite a bit more.
It was a win on removing the die cast hoops. A natural place to cut. He did not like the choking effect on the SS shell.
So, unless you are saying that Nick lied to me ...

I absolutely understand the need for copy. It’s marketing. Why would you want to alienate a portion of the consumer market.
I am correct in my statement. Nick ... the man who builds the drum ... is my source.
 
Last edited:

D. B. Cooper

DFO Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
2,515
Reaction score
889
I prefer die cast on all my snare drums. I get the Ludwig version most of the time, although one of my Yamahas has their aluminum hoops.
What do you think of them? I have an aluminum pair that I haven't used yet.
 

EvEnStEvEn

~Lounge Lizard~
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
18,304
Reaction score
3,248
Location
Oklur Homer
I have at least ten snares with die cast hoops and I've always liked them for their rigidity and that certain stout-ness they bring to a drum. While it's true they focus the tonality more, the overall sonic differences between them and triple-flanged hoops doesn't seem that great when playing with a loud band but the sticking feel can be different, I can grow accustomed to either fairly quickly. Triple flanged can offer a bit more open nuance in feel and tonality. I like both for different reasons AND I like S-Hoops.

Gretsch and Tama drums just ain't right to me without their diecast hoops!
 

dsop

Very well Known Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
781
Reaction score
653
Location
Los Angeles, CA
What do you think of them? I have an aluminum pair that I haven't used yet.
What do I think of the Yamaha aluminum hoops? They're nice, but way overpriced. I'd probably opt for them on all my snares if they were $50 each. The Ludwig (or any zinc version) probably dampen certain harmonic frequencies more though, if that's what you're looking for.
 


Top