Change my mind - Die cast hoops suck on snare drums

Ptrick

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What do I think of the Yamaha aluminum hoops? They're nice, but way overpriced. I'd probably opt for them on all my snares if they were $50 each. The Ludwig (or any zinc version) probably dampen certain harmonic frequencies more though, if that's what you're looking for.
Keep an eye out on eBay, couple sellers selling aluminum die cast snare hoops for way cheaper direct from China. I have a set. Not finished as cleanly as the Yamaha’s, but sound the same.
 

dsop

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Keep an eye out on eBay, couple sellers selling aluminum die cast snare hoops for way cheaper direct from China. I have a set. Not finished as cleanly as the Yamaha’s, but sound the same.
I actually had a couple sets of those a year ago. One set was nice, the other had really bad discolored chrome plating. Regardless, they were quite different from the Yamaha hoops. A bit too high for my liking.
 

fusseltier

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I've had a lot of drum sets over the years with cast and flanged hoops.
Personally, I think the cast fit and held the shape better. But I'm talking the quality stuff, not Chinese garbage. The American, Japanese, and Taiwan made were the good stuff. (I guess German too, but I didn't have a sonor)
 

Deafmoon

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Not a fan of die cast hoops on most snares ... some do ok, though.
Noble & Cooley dropped die cast hoops several years ago on their SS snares. He said it really opened up those solid wood snares.
N&C dropped their die cast hoops to save cost. They made their own die cast hoops that had angles around each tension rod hole, and it was getting too expensive. Same reason why they dropped the Brass Badge. If you want a solid shell drum, go look into Craviotto. There's a reason they own the market. I owned a N&C 5X14 Solid Wood Cherry snare drum years back. Tremendous sound, but what a freakin' hassle to change heads and tune the drum. The flipping over and over of the drum to do each lug simultaneously was a major pain in the ass. I sold the drum off years ago. I also found they did not hold their value and I lost money on the drum. In fact the only brand that I believe holds it's resale value is Gretsch.
 
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Deafmoon

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If you are looking for the most musical sound from hoops on a snare. Go buy brass hoops. I had a pair of Tama Brass Hoops. Actually they were nickel over brass and the drum sang with those triple flange hoops on there. Also I am a fan off Rogers Tall Boy Hoops on a snare drum. Very tough to find, but searching them out is half the fun. Sometimes.
 
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Let’s hear whatha got!

I’ve got a USA custom that I recently swapped out w 302s - Bang - infinitely more open, warm, and rim shots sound great. Same with my SQ2 snare.
generally speaking , i tend to agree .. however , imho , not all dc hoops are created equal . as a yam' endorser , i was very happy when they came up with the dc aluminium ones many moons ago .. for me they're the best of both worlds ; ie - one gets the stability advantage , but if you play your back-beats' & hit the rim at the same time , the sound is a lot more warmer - less harsh .. they don't seem to ' close the drum down ' as much as the their heavier cousins . having writ that , it also depends on the drum itself , head selection , tuning - & most important - your touch !
 
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I recently received a pair of diecast aluminum hoops directly from China like are on some of my Yamaha drums. I couldn’t resist the price which was $41 for the pair (shipped) and I put them on a 5 1/2 inch copper Yamaha concert series snare drum that I wanted to love but could not get happening. I have to say that the diecast in aluminum just smoothEd out the copper overtones and seemed to snug up the fundamental pitch to a very pleasing and usable tone! And, I got them in 11 days!...
please let me / us know where you got those !
 

NobleCooleyNut

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Deafmoon , you are not completely correct in your statement on the brass badges at N&C . These badges are still available at N&C if the buyer wants them . The burned on logo has become very popular which is why you see so many snares coming out with this option . My dealer has received a couple N&C SS snares with the brass badges recently .
In regards to the diecast hoops , the company that made the hoops for N&C went out of business . They did decide to go with triple flange hoops rather than go to the potential expense of getting new diecast moulds created and sourcing a new supplier , they still offer diecast hoops as an option ( for a surcharge) but triple flange are the standard. They discovered that triple flange hoops really sound great on N&C snares .

Now back to the topic at hand - I used to be dead set against diecast hoops on snares due to my only experience at that time with Gretsch snares with diecast hoops . I did not like the cross stick or rim shot sound of diecast hoops on Gretsch snares . I have two snares with diecast hoops now that I really like a lot . I have an N&C Alloy Classic 4.75” with the original N&C diecast hoops and it sounds superb - very open and has a great cross stick sound .

The other snare I own with diecast hoops is a 7” Sonor SQ2 Heavy Beech with Hella Hoops - I think for this particular snare drum they are perfect . These diecast hoops sing - beautiful piercing cross stick sound and the rimshots are fantastic .
 

Mcjnic

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N&C dropped their die cast hoops to save cost. They made their own die cast hoops that had angles around each tension rod hole, and it was getting too expensive. Same reason why they dropped the Brass Badge. If you want a solid shell drum, go look into Craviotto. There's a reason they own the market. I owned a N&C 5X14 Solid Wood Cherry snare drum years back. Tremendous sound, but what a freakin' hassle to change heads and tune the drum. The flipping over and over of the drum to do each lug simultaneously was a major pain in the ass. I sold the drum off years ago. I also found they did not hold their value and I lost money on the drum. In fact the only brand that I believe holds it's resale value is Gretsch.

You are not entirely correct about the badges (they will do brass or even custom badges for you ... did some custom work for me) ... and I strongly disagree with your comparison of company builds.
I ordered a complete Craviotto kit with snare just a few years ago ... all solid walnut. What a freekin joke. The company screwed the build up so bad, Steve insisted he return my money. I kept saying no and allowing them to "fix" things. Finally, there was no way to "fix" the build. I had to take the money back and ditch the build.
Craviotto? No thank you.
My Noble & Cooley kit and snare work just fine.
Truth is ... I would rather put up with tuning a N&C snare with kitten teeth than deal with Craviotto as a company again.
Glad the drums work for you.
 
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Markkuliini

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N&C dropped their die cast hoops to save cost. They made their own die cast hoops that had angles around each tension rod hole, and it was getting too expensive. Same reason why they dropped the Brass Badge. If you want a solid shell drum, go look into Craviotto. There's a reason they own the market. I owned a N&C 5X14 Solid Wood Cherry snare drum years back. Tremendous sound, but what a freakin' hassle to change heads and tune the drum. The flipping over and over of the drum to do each lug simultaneously was a major pain in the ass. I sold the drum off years ago. I also found they did not hold their value and I lost money on the drum. In fact the only brand that I believe holds it's resale value is Gretsch.
Why did my N&C then come with a brass badge? It was not a custom order, but a new drum bought from a shop in last December.

And why would you tune the heads like that? I know that you have to loosen the opposite head when changing a head, because one point lugs, but after you have put the hoop back on and tension rods to finger tension, then you can tune the heads in whatever order you want. No need to flip back and forth.
I actually changed to N&C's because my 3 limited edition Craviotto snares didn't keep their tuning. All 3 lost the bottom head tension so quickly that I often had to look for fallen rods from the floor after a gig. And no, I don't hit hard. It was a systematic problem with their nob tube lugs, and now I'm really happy with my 2 N&C SS snares that I got instead. Hold the tuning really well and sound is just as good if not better.
Screenshot_20200715-185439.jpg
 

Tom Holder

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I believe that die-cast hoops are superior because they pretty-much do not flex or warp like pressed steel or especially brass hoops can. Because of this rigidity, the drum is easier to tune, and STAYS in tune better with the die-cast hoops. Generally speaking, brass hoops might sound better.... I have an old (transition badge) Ludwig Jazz Festival drum that came with COB "drop-gate" hoops, which I removed and replaced with generic steel hoops. HUGE difference in the sound... hard to explain exactly, but that drum sounded WAY better to me with the original COB hoops on it, so back on the drum they went.

My main "player" is a Johnny Craviotto 5-1/2 x 14 solid bird's-eye maple snare with tube lugs and Gretsch die-cast hoops, top & bottom. This drum is remarkably LOUD if you lay into it. It is also remarkably sensitive and projects beautifully when brushes are used. This drum has the widest dynamic range of any drum I've ever played. This drum was custom made for me by Johnny C. in his backyard shop in Santa Cruz, CA. in 1991. It might sound better with brass hoops on it, I'll never know because I love this drum very much just the way Johnny made it.
 

Corbin L Douthitt

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Let’s hear whatha got!

I’ve got a USA custom that I recently swapped out w 302s - Bang - infinitely more open, warm, and rim shots sound great. Same with my SQ2 snare.
Die cast rims on a snare work great.. They just have a different sound from COB or COS/nickel. It's a matter of taste. Some folks don't have any..;-)
 

TGunner

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My experience with triple flange stamped steel hoops is that all that I've owned were warped, some marginally, some a lot. Bending them back flat takes some patience and never really achieved absolute flat. Thus leaving tuning a little tricky and with temp and humidity changes to the room means constantly retuning. Cast hoops may make slight sound differences but do a way better job achieving an even sound around the hoop in my opinion.
 

Treviso1

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N&C dropped their die cast hoops to save cost. They made their own die cast hoops that had angles around each tension rod hole, and it was getting too expensive. Same reason why they dropped the Brass Badge. If you want a solid shell drum, go look into Craviotto. There's a reason they own the market. I owned a N&C 5X14 Solid Wood Cherry snare drum years back. Tremendous sound, but what a freakin' hassle to change heads and tune the drum. The flipping over and over of the drum to do each lug simultaneously was a major pain in the ass. I sold the drum off years ago. I also found they did not hold their value and I lost money on the drum. In fact the only brand that I believe holds it's resale value is Gretsch.
^^^What's he talking about?^^^
There's no reality to anything that is written above by Deafmoon. N&C still make their badge, if you want it. I much prefer it to the burned in Logo. Also, the die cast hoops are still available, only not the original design (which came from the old Milestone Company die cast molds) because the company making them in the USA went out of business. I love die cast hoops on N&C Solid Shell (SS) drums and it is the only way that I would ever order one new. The OP also talks about having to flip the drum over and over to tune it as opposed to a Craviotto...what kind of craziness is this? Changing heads on both drums is exactly the same. They generally both have tube lugs...no real difference. He completely misread and misunderstood the N&C tuning instructions...
While I like Craviotto solid shell drums too, to say that N&C solid shell drums are inferior to Craviotto is nonsense.
 

dsop

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I was recording a couple tunes yesterday and was using my 8" deep Yamaha Recording Custom snare. It's been outfitted with Ludwig die cast hoops top and bottom since I got it new. Before the session, I put on a new batter head.
During the recoding, any time I played a rim shot it was as if I was sticking an ice pick in my ears. Really unpleasant feel and terrible sound (the batter is quite tight). I'm switching the hoops back to the stock 1.6 mm triple flanged.
 


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