Charlie watts Paiste set up 1981

gezz

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We know that Charlie's favourite crash was a paiste 16" 602 thin crash..
In the Paste 1981 "profiles" book, Charlie's set up was the following

15" 602 sound edge hats
20" 2002 medium
20" 602 medium Ride
18" 602 thin crash

I love the drum sound on the album Black and Blue.. The following set up I find come close to the actual sounds..

13" 2002 sound edge
16" 602 thin crash
20" 602 medium Ride
19" 2002 crash

This set up just sounds so classic.. Yes yes my shiney A Customs are having a rest in cymbal bag.. My only two paiste crashes I have left..

Gerry
 

Rik_Everglade

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I saw that Charlie appeared in a Paiste famous setups catalogue: I doubted that he ever used Paiste... I was pretty certain that for most of his career, he's had mostly Zildjian, especially his hihats then sometime in the 70s he acquired some UFIPS that have served him well; china and flats. But haven't his cymbals mostly been Zildjian and UFIP?
 

gezz

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You are totally right.. Yeah he loves those ufip China's.. The old Avedis hats and the Italian flat ride.. Also ufip I think.. Charlie did use his paiste set up from late 70s till early 80s..
 

Johnny D

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Ah, a post about a man near and dear to my heart... I wrote an article about Charlie for the current issue of Vintage Drums Legendary Sounds and also discussed his cymbals. You can download it here: https://www.vintagedrumslegendarysounds.com. It's worth checking out...

As I said in the article, Charlie told me he used a mixture of A. Zildjian and Paiste throughout the years, but has never been specific as to which cymbals were used on specific recordings. He did indeed use a Paiste 16" pre-serial 602 crash from about 1968 until it cracked in 2007. That was his main "crash" until he started using the 18" UFIP china as his main "crash" sound, but he continued to use the 16" 602, placed above his floor tom. The 602 is what you hear on Gimme Shelter, Brown Sugar, Wild Horses, etc.

I sent him a set of the A. Zildjian & CIE cymbals when they came out and he liked the 16" in particular and used it for his other projects. So when he cracked the Paiste, I sent him another 16" CIE crash and that's what he's using currently.

I don't think the 1981 Profiles book is accurate as far as Charlie is concerned. There's an older version (I believe the first book?) that references him using a 20" Giant Beat, which I think is more accurate. The cymbals on "Let It Bleed" and "Get Yer Ya Ya's Out" (both from 1969) sound like a 20" Giant Beat, 16" 602 (thin) crash and 15" GB Hi-hats. I believe he continued to use the 20" Giant Beat until the early/mid 70s when he may have started using a 20" 2002, due to GB's no longer being available. His hi-hats back then (early 70s) were either 14" 602s or 14" A. New Beats. Most likely 602s until the 80s.

His cymbals on Black and Blue sound especially nice and my best estimation is they are Paiste, since it was recorded in '74/75. When they toured in '75, he was playing all Paiste. I believe a 20" 2002 Medium, his beloved 16" 602 crash and I believe 14" 602 SE Hats.
 

gezz

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Johnny D said:
Ah, a post about a man near and dear to my heart... I wrote an article about Charlie for the current issue of Vintage Drums Legendary Sounds and also discussed his cymbals. You can download it here: https://www.vintagedrumslegendarysounds.com. It's worth checking out...

As I said in the article, Charlie told me he used a mixture of A. Zildjian and Paiste throughout the years, but has never been specific as to which cymbals were used on specific recordings. He did indeed use a Paiste 16" pre-serial 602 crash from about 1968 until it cracked in 2007. That was his main "crash" until he started using the 18" UFIP china as his main "crash" sound, but he continued to use the 16" 602, placed above his floor tom. The 602 is what you hear on Gimme Shelter, Brown Sugar, Wild Horses, etc.

I sent him a set of the A. Zildjian & CIE cymbals when they came out and he liked the 16" in particular and used it for his other projects. So when he cracked the Paiste, I sent him another 16" CIE crash and that's what he's using currently.

I don't think the 1981 Profiles book is accurate as far as Charlie is concerned. There's an older version (I believe the first book?) that references him using a 20" Giant Beat, which I think is more accurate. The cymbals on "Let It Bleed" and "Get Yer Ya Ya's Out" (both from 1969) sound like a 20" Giant Beat, 16" 602 (thin) crash and 15" GB Hi-hats. I believe he continued to use the 20" Giant Beat until the early/mid 70s when he may have started using a 20" 2002, due to GB's no longer being available. His hi-hats back then (early 70s) were either 14" 602s or 14" A. New Beats. Most likely 602s until the 80s.

His cymbals on Black and Blue sound especially nice and my best estimation is they are Paiste, since it was recorded in '74/75. When they toured in '75, he was playing all Paiste. I believe a 20" 2002 Medium, his beloved 16" 602 crash and I believe 14" 602 SE Hats.
I absolutely LOVE your detailed info and cannot thank you enough for the joy of knowledge you give..
Thanks so much Johnny sheer delight everytime.

Gerry
 

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gezz said:
Ah, a post about a man near and dear to my heart... I wrote an article about Charlie for the current issue of Vintage Drums Legendary Sounds and also discussed his cymbals. You can download it here: https://www.vintagedrumslegendarysounds.com. It's worth checking out...

As I said in the article, Charlie told me he used a mixture of A. Zildjian and Paiste throughout the years, but has never been specific as to which cymbals were used on specific recordings. He did indeed use a Paiste 16" pre-serial 602 crash from about 1968 until it cracked in 2007. That was his main "crash" until he started using the 18" UFIP china as his main "crash" sound, but he continued to use the 16" 602, placed above his floor tom. The 602 is what you hear on Gimme Shelter, Brown Sugar, Wild Horses, etc.

I sent him a set of the A. Zildjian & CIE cymbals when they came out and he liked the 16" in particular and used it for his other projects. So when he cracked the Paiste, I sent him another 16" CIE crash and that's what he's using currently.

I don't think the 1981 Profiles book is accurate as far as Charlie is concerned. There's an older version (I believe the first book?) that references him using a 20" Giant Beat, which I think is more accurate. The cymbals on "Let It Bleed" and "Get Yer Ya Ya's Out" (both from 1969) sound like a 20" Giant Beat, 16" 602 (thin) crash and 15" GB Hi-hats. I believe he continued to use the 20" Giant Beat until the early/mid 70s when he may have started using a 20" 2002, due to GB's no longer being available. His hi-hats back then (early 70s) were either 14" 602s or 14" A. New Beats. Most likely 602s until the 80s.

His cymbals on Black and Blue sound especially nice and my best estimation is they are Paiste, since it was recorded in '74/75. When they toured in '75, he was playing all Paiste. I believe a 20" 2002 Medium, his beloved 16" 602 crash and I believe 14" 602 SE Hats.
I absolutely LOVE your detailed info and cannot thank you enough for the joy of knowledge you give..
Thanks so much Johnny sheer delight everytime.

Gerry
My pleasure, Gerry. As an addendum to my prior post, I found the pic of Charlie from what I believe is the first Paiste Profiles book in '72. Charlie was never an official Paiste endorser (i.e. never signed a contract) so they may have sent him these cymbals and then listed them as his cymbal set. Things were a lot more loose in those days :)

He bought his 16" 602 crash at Drum City in London around 1967 or 1968 - it's actually stamped "Arbiter Custom" Paiste Formula 602, so my guess is that's why it's not listed as part of his set up.

I'm pretty sure he used the 20" 602 Ride at some point and highly possible he used 15" 602 SE hats on Get Yer Ya Ya's Out, rather than GB Hats as I suggested. Check out the article in Vintage Drums Legendary Sounds.
 

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ekim

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There's no way Charlie used 15" sound edge hats .
 
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ekim said:
There's no way Charlie used 15" sound edge hats .
Paiste has more than a few ads quoting Charlie using 15 2002 Soundedge hihats. Many Drummers in those days removed the logos from their Cymbals as they did not like the large gaudy logos that have become standard these days. This doesnt say he did or didnt use the Paiste 15 SE hats though.
 

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ekim said:
There's no way Charlie used 15" sound edge hats .
He definitely used 15" hi hats in the early years. He told me so directly. Whether they were sound edge or not I don't know. And I'm guessing he was using 15" hi hats (possibly 602 SE) on Beggars Banquet (1968) and Get Yer Ya's Out (1969 tour).

Buffalo_drummer said:
I thought he always used an upside down china as his main crash on the right?
He didn't start using the UFIP China on his left until 1978. Prior to that, it was just his 20" ride and 16" 602 crash to his right.

The first two photos are from 1972. In the shot from behind, you can get a good look at Charlie's cymbals and based on their profiles and cup shapes, you can easily determine they are Paiste. The 20" ride looks to be a Giant Beat. The crash is his longtime 16" 602.

The last photo (of his hi hats) is from 1969 at Altamont Speedway. They look like 15" GB hats to me.
 

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Johnny D

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gezz said:
There's no way Charlie used 15" sound edge hats .
Can you prove that??? What a bollox of a reply. He actually DID use sound edge for a couple of years..

Gerry
And to Gerry's point, he did use sound edge hats (probably 14" 2002s) during the '78 "Some Girls" tour and most likely on the record itself which was recorded in '77. He's been using old/60s 14" New Beats since the 80s.
 

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I saw three Stones shows in 1969. It appeared he was playing 14" hats.
 

Johnny D

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Bun Carlos said:
I saw three Stones shows in 1969. It appeared he was playing 14" hats.
Thanks, Bun. I'm only going by photos. Charlie has never been specific about what cymbals he used back then.
 

Rik_Everglade

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Check that cymbal setup. I've never seen him with just a hi hat to the left. I've always recognized the sounds being quite different for his hi hats. The recordings obviously sound like he's used several sizes and everything from Zildjian, Paiste, and maybe whatever was in the studio. I'm now buying that he did use Paiste for quite a while, thanks Johnny D for the great information. I've really grown used to that wonderful quick crash of his UFIP on the left...That poor cymbal gets a ton of work on every show. How often did he need to replace that china?
 

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Rik_Everglade said:
Check that cymbal setup. I've never seen him with just a hi hat to the left. I've always recognized the sounds being quite different for his hi hats. The recordings obviously sound like he's used several sizes and everything from Zildjian, Paiste, and maybe whatever was in the studio. I'm now buying that he did use Paiste for quite a while, thanks Johnny D for the great information. I've really grown used to that wonderful quick crash of his UFIP on the left...That poor cymbal gets a ton of work on every show. How often did he need to replace that china?
Rik, he played the set-up with just his hi-hat to the left and his ride and crash cymbals to his right from 1969 until 1977/78, when he added the UFIP china to his left. He's since added another UFIP china with rivets above his floor tom, and a Crash of Doom to the left of his hi-hat.

For anyone interested, this is the "Gearing Up" interview on Charlie I did for MD a couple of years ago. It was far more comprehensive when I submitted it, but unfortunately a lot of it ended up on the "cutting room floor." Live and learn... :)
 

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toddlittle827

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I saw a live video of the Stones from 1969 last week and it confirms what Johnny is saying. Hi Hats only on his left side. A crash and a ride on the right side at this time.
 
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Johnny D

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I saw a live video of the Stones from 1969 last week and it confirms what Johnny is saying. Hi Hats only on his left side. A crash and a ride on the right side at this time.
todd, how could you have doubted me ;) If you watch their excellent concert movie "Ladies And Gentlemen The Rolling Stones" from their 1972 US tour, you'll see the same set up, as well as their 1975 US and 1976 European tours. He didn't add the 18" UFIP China on his left until the Pathe Marconi Paris sessions in 1977 and "Some Girls" tour in 1978. So all those incredible records they made from 1968/69 until 1977 were with the two cymbals on his right.
 

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Ha ha, not doubting you - backing you up my friend! Here is a pic of Charlie from 1975 - shows him with a Black Label 602 or 2002 Ride (see the Paiste logo on the bottom of the cymbal, folks) which must of replaced the earlier Giant Beat as you mentioned above. Proof of Charlie using Paiste for any doubters.

Any chance he played a 24" GB on the '72 tour, Johnny? A poster in one of the Paiste FB groups says he saw the tour and that Charlie's ride looked bigger than a 20".
 

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