Charlie Watts

tommykat1

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Three pages on a thread about CW. I've never, ever, ever been a Charlie Watts fan, and I grew up in the 60s. I don't know what the fuss is all about. His chops are as weak as his left hand, with which he played match grip early-on in his stint with the stones, and now that he plays trad, he's even weaker. Seen him live, not impressed.

Sorry, just my .02.
 

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Very cool!! Thanks for the info! It's exactly what I need. I plan on making a Charlie Watts kit. I'm on the prowl for old round badge drums (12,16, 22) with wraps that are beyond repair. I'll remove the wrap, sand and clear. (No worries.. I won't do this to a well wrapped RB). Once finished, I think the drums will hold a higher value. I have a question about the clear coat on Charlie's kit. Is it a clear lacquer or a urethane?
 

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Charlie is about groove and feel... not chops. His groove is highly sought after and very few can capture it. ALL the greats have HIGH respects for him because of this... (I can't believe I'm even writing this... I never get involved in these debates. :) )
tommykat1 said:
Three pages on a thread about CW. I've never, ever, ever been a Charlie Watts fan, and I grew up in the 60s. I don't know what the fuss is all about. His chops are as weak as his left hand, with which he played match grip early-on in his stint with the stones, and now that he plays trad, he's even weaker. Seen him live, not impressed.

Sorry, just my .02.
 

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Wow! Dissing Charlie Watts...That's just not right. He's definitely not a drumnasticmonkey, but he has a groove, and not hearing yours, I'd bet that you would do well to emulate it. People like to sing and play around that groove. There are others that have a great groove too! If you have it, you got it. I wish I had it.
 

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Yes - Charlie Watts has a groove that is legendary...Paint It Black/Satisfaction just to name two...there are dozens. It's one thing to do a cover...it's quite another to come up with an original drum part for a tune. No one can question the popularity and success of the Stones. There are many bands with no where near the success of the stones that have a Superstar for a drummer that could chop and flash Charlie Watts into the ground. If the Rolling Stones wanted a drummer like that they would have changed long ago. But, Charlie Watts has a groove and fit to the band that no other can match and I'm sure all members in the band...past and present....have realized and still realize that.
 

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kona1984 said:
Yes - Charlie Watts has a groove that is legendary...Paint It Black/Satisfaction just to name two...there are dozens. It's one thing to do a cover...it's quite another to come up with an original drum part for a tune. No one can question the popularity and success of the Stones. There are many bands with no where near the success of the stones that have a Superstar for a drummer that could chop and flash Charlie Watts into the ground. If the Rolling Stones wanted a drummer like that they would have changed long ago. But, Charlie Watts has a groove and fit to the band that no other can match and I'm sure all members in the band...past and present....have realized and still realize that.
Yeah, it's amazing that given the lifespan of a normal RnR drummer, he's been around since the beginning. His longevity at occupying one of the most coveted gigs in the world is the best compliment anyone can give. If you really think about all the great bands that swap out players at the drop of a hat, it's even more unbelievable. Remember, he's not just a yes man either. He's had his confrontations with Mick (the "get my drummer" hiccup) and others but through all this, he's been their anchor. And I'm no Stones fan either.
 

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jespo said:
Very cool!! Thanks for the info! It's exactly what I need. I plan on making a Charlie Watts kit. I'm on the prowl for old round badge drums (12,16, 22) with wraps that are beyond repair. I'll remove the wrap, sand and clear. (No worries.. I won't do this to a well wrapped RB). Once finished, I think the drums will hold a higher value. I have a question about the clear coat on Charlie's kit. Is it a clear lacquer or a urethane?
The knowledge and experience of those on this forum is mindnumbing, isn't it !!! This is like the MIT of drum forums :laughing5:
 

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Looks like Charlie has added another Zildjian right above his hats!
 
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jespo said:
Charlie is about groove and feel... not chops. His groove is highly sought after and very few can capture it. ALL the greats have HIGH respects for him because of this... (I can't believe I'm even writing this... I never get involved in these debates. :) )
Three pages on a thread about CW. I've never, ever, ever been a Charlie Watts fan, and I grew up in the 60s. I don't know what the fuss is all about. His chops are as weak as his left hand, with which he played match grip early-on in his stint with the stones, and now that he plays trad, he's even weaker. Seen him live, not impressed.

Sorry, just my .02.
His groove and feel as well as his chops seam totally simplistic to me. It's just the way I've always felt about him.
 

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andrewro said:
Geez Tommy, no reason to be mean spirited.
Sorry! Not trying to be mean spirited! Just not a fan, that's all.

I saw him at a legendary concert in L. A. in the early 80s. It was a benefit for Ronnie Lane, who was dying of multple sclerosis. Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Jimmy page and multiple drummers and other talents were there. Charlie was lost. When he played, it was with a second drummer who you could hear, while Charlie just wasn't "there." It was at this show where I came to disdain him, as everyone else was superlative, and he appeared to be just an ornament.

The best performance in the show was Jeff Beck who performed his fusion tunes from the "Wired " era. It was a religious experience.
 

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kona1984 said:
Yes - Charlie Watts has a groove that is legendary...Paint It Black/Satisfaction just to name two...there are dozens. It's one thing to do a cover...it's quite another to come up with an original drum part for a tune. No one can question the popularity and success of the Stones. There are many bands with no where near the success of the stones that have a Superstar for a drummer that could chop and flash Charlie Watts into the ground. If the Rolling Stones wanted a drummer like that they would have changed long ago. But, Charlie Watts has a groove and fit to the band that no other can match and I'm sure all members in the band...past and present....have realized and still realize that.
I can't disagree with this. You are correct. However, I never was a fan of the Stones and that CW groove. (There is ONE album I like, for the excellent song construction and execution: "Let It Bleed." I never got into anything else by them.)

Hey! It's just my opinion, and I know I'm in the distinct minority! It's not a put-down of anyone else's abilities or taste. It's just one drummer's ramblings. Please, don't take offense. :)
 

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homeby5 said:
Yes - Charlie Watts has a groove that is legendary...Paint It Black/Satisfaction just to name two...there are dozens. It's one thing to do a cover...it's quite another to come up with an original drum part for a tune. No one can question the popularity and success of the Stones. There are many bands with no where near the success of the stones that have a Superstar for a drummer that could chop and flash Charlie Watts into the ground. If the Rolling Stones wanted a drummer like that they would have changed long ago. But, Charlie Watts has a groove and fit to the band that no other can match and I'm sure all members in the band...past and present....have realized and still realize that.
Yeah, it's amazing that given the lifespan of a normal RnR drummer, he's been around since the beginning. His longevity at occupying one of the most coveted gigs in the world is the best compliment anyone can give. If you really think about all the great bands that swap out players at the drop of a hat, it's even more unbelievable. Remember, he's not just a yes man either. He's had his confrontations with Mick (the "get my drummer" hiccup) and others but through all this, he's been their anchor. And I'm no Stones fan either.
Yes! I have read about the "get my drummer" incident. And couple this with the fact that Charlie was married, avoided drugs and the groupie scene, and had a successful career as a graphics artist before he committed to the Stones. He has definitely been the band's anchor through all of the ups and downs. This, I truly respect.

I'm just not a fan of his sound, or of the Stones in general. Their Super Bowl performance was one of the worst I've ever seen or heard.
 

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Rik_Everglade said:
Wow! Dissing Charlie Watts...That's just not right. He's definitely not a drumnasticmonkey, but he has a groove, and not hearing yours, I'd bet that you would do well to emulate it. People like to sing and play around that groove. There are others that have a great groove too! If you have it, you got it. I wish I had it.
+1.
 

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The Stones perform on two stages. The B Stage refers to the second stage that is usually accesed from the main stage via a catwalk. These are where the "newer" 6-ply drums are used. The main stage is where the 56-57 3-ply drums are used. Both are natural blonde stained but the one on the main stage has the rash on the rack tom.
 

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I get that you aren't a fan of the Stones....I don't listen to much of their music myself. Some of it I like a lot and it's mostly their very early stuff. What I don't get is how you could 'disdain him"....for any reason....unless you know him personally and he has disrespected you etc. There is a lot of pressure and expenctation on someone in a position like his. I'm an average drummer at best and I know Watts could play me into the ground from experiance alone. Who knows what went on at the concert in L.A. you mentioned. It could have been a very bad day for him....just anything at all could have went down.

In private life he's probably just a regular guy and feels very fortunate to have had...and still is having....a very good career in drumming. Like I said - I'm not a fan of the Stones - I do repect the talent...and I certainly think Mr. Watts has earned repect from most of his peers. You don't play in a band like that for 50 years (that alone is awesome) without paying your dues.
Sorry! Not trying to be mean spirited! Just not a fan, that's all.

I saw him at a legendary concert in L. A. in the early 80s. It was a benefit for Ronnie Lane, who was dying of multple sclerosis. Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Jimmy page and multiple drummers and other talents were there. Charlie was lost. When he played, it was with a second drummer who you could hear, while Charlie just wasn't "there." It was at this show where I came to disdain him, as everyone else was superlative, and he appeared to be just an ornament.

The best performance in the show was Jeff Beck who performed his fusion tunes from the "Wired " era. It was a religious experience.
 

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kona1984 said:
I get that you aren't a fan of the Stones....I don't listen to much of their music myself. Some of it I like a lot and it's mostly their very early stuff. What I don't get is how you could 'disdain him"....for any reason....unless you know him personally and he has disrespected you etc. There is a lot of pressure and expenctation on someone in a position like his. I'm an average drummer at best and I know Watts could play me into the ground from experiance alone. Who knows what went on at the concert in L.A. you mentioned. It could have been a very bad day for him....just anything at all could have went down.

In private life he's probably just a regular guy and feels very fortunate to have had...and still is having....a very good career in drumming. Like I said - I'm not a fan of the Stones - I do repect the talent...and I certainly think Mr. Watts has earned repect from most of his peers. You don't play in a band like that for 50 years (that alone is awesome) without paying your dues.
Sorry! Not trying to be mean spirited! Just not a fan, that's all.

I saw him at a legendary concert in L. A. in the early 80s. It was a benefit for Ronnie Lane, who was dying of multple sclerosis. Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Jimmy page and multiple drummers and other talents were there. Charlie was lost. When he played, it was with a second drummer who you could hear, while Charlie just wasn't "there." It was at this show where I came to disdain him, as everyone else was superlative, and he appeared to be just an ornament.

The best performance in the show was Jeff Beck who performed his fusion tunes from the "Wired " era. It was a religious experience.
These are simply my opinions from observations over many years of listening to--and playing--Stones music (both under duress).

I grew up with their music around me. In my first band in 8th grade, we did "Satisfaction" and "Get Off Of My Cloud." The simplicity and repetitiveness of the drum parts always had me thinking, "Is that it? He's not as good a player as __________." And I was, what, 14? Playing a good rendition of "Wipeout" was a lot harder than any Stones song.

With the exception of the album "Let it Bleed," I never could understand why their music was popular. To me CW's drumming seems easy to emulate. It's straight stuff, no swing. His fills are sloppy. My current band does "19th Nervous Breakdown." Try to find any semblance of bass drum or electric bass in that song. It's all a muddle. His ride cymbal is cool, for sure--part of his early jazz influence, I'm guessing. But that and the weak snare and sloppy fills are back in the mix.

My opinion is that CW has a weak left hand. I cringe when I have to do a single stroke roll in "Make a Grown Man Cry" where the left hand strikes weaker than the right hand. If this was intentional on his part, i.e., accenting the right hand, or not being able to keep up with the left, it was a mistake because it sounds horrible, IMHO. And yet, there it is, immortalized in the song.
 

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Tommykat1
It's funny how different people see things in a different way and how our early influence and experiences affect us in life. For me....."repetitiveness" in the tunes you've mentioned makes the 'tune' and I for one like playing those tunes. I listen to the band, the song and play to that while having a good time drumming....trying to get as close to Watts' playing as possible. Maybe Mr. Watts does have a weak left hand....and...he is the first to admit he's not the greatest drummer and I've heard his say maybe he would have been better off being a 'schooled drummer' from the get go....
But, he did land a pretty good jig. His jazz band is doing well too.
 

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kona1984 said:
Tommykat1
It's funny how different people see things in a different way and how our early influence and experiences affect us in life. For me....."repetitiveness" in the tunes you've mentioned makes the 'tune' and I for one like playing those tunes. I listen to the band, the song and play to that while having a good time drumming....trying to get as close to Watts' playing as possible. Maybe Mr. Watts does have a weak left hand....and...he is the first to admit he's not the greatest drummer and I've heard his say maybe he would have been better off being a 'schooled drummer' from the get go....
But, he did land a pretty good jig. His jazz band is doing well too.
+1

When we did "Satisfaction" (albeit without a tambourine) I always felt my part was 1 2 cha cha cha. 1 2 cha cha cha. :)

Bill Wyman's bass in that song is what makes it swing in my book.
 


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