Chicago's 25 or 6 to 4: Band Disagreement

Piggpenn

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In the recording posted by the OP, the first sequence is all guitar. The second includes the snare, hat and bass drum. Third is all band. OP is correct based on the recording he has supplied.
 

Pounder

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I don't hear the doubling of the drums. I do hear the distinct attack of the guitar. That being said it is POSSIBLE there was doubling on the toms.

However because I can't hear it, plus the fact that they don't do it live, begs the question: Why even argue about it? How close to the original do you want to be? I bet anything there are many other parts of other Chicago tune you guys aren't playing to the note.

All the above being said, it's possible you're hearing the octave-below double-stops Kath's playing on the guitar. I hear either that or an overdubbed bass. Tough to tell! Producers may know or even remember, or the answer may never definitively be had!
 

JazzDrumGuy

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Hmmm.....sounds like some sort of muted tom. I thought maybe a HH but the HH is clear when it kicks in.......it could be the guitar only but I could see how it sounds like a drum.

I'd let the guitarist do his thing then come in when the HH's clearly kick in.
 

TheBeachBoy

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I've never heard anything but guitar on the intro . Could've been something in the room sympathetically resonating or somebody thumping along , Pack o smokes jumping up and down , loose ceiling tile ... who knows ?

Now about the disagreement -

How important is it ? Is this the fine tip of the wedge where you may invite the expectations of further compromises down the road ? Is this just about some mysterious drum part that may or may not exist or is it something beyond ? Bands can get weird .
This is what I was thinking it was, something resonating with the guitar amp. I like sneaking those little parts in there when it's not something you'd normally hear, but this probably isn't worth it, or more likely even a drum part.

edit:
After listening to the bass and drums only version, it has to be the bass guitar making that percussive sound. There's a little noise from Peter muting the strings or something.
 
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Mongrel

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Hey Chris! I'd love to hear your Chicago tribute band...but I'm in SoCal! Check out this video, which is a pretty darn good version... HERE

-Mark
Trust me....

NO ONE is thinking about toms under intro after hearing that....

Sheeesssshhh that was sweet!

p.s. Am I wrong, or is the drummer playing bass drum triplets under the snare and hats (like I always *thought* it was)? Until I heard that double-tracked Seraphine part I always thought they were there. But there is no bass drum part playing them on that.
 

Mongrel

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Honestly...what I am hearing on that intro are two guitar parts and a bass. The first guitar plays the full chord, the bass doubles the roots, the second guitar part is the chord muted under the first guitar part.
 

NewBeat

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With headphones, I can hear a tom, faintly. I think it is an artifact of the recording & mixing. I believe one tom was playing the same guitar rhythm, possibly the bass drum too (hence the flam effect), but this extra layering didn't make it to the final mix. However, the bleed-through (from headphones or whatnot) did.
 

Moonman

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Hey all,

I play in a Chicago tribute band and we're having a disagreement on something. I very matter-of-factly pointed out that, although our guitarist has always started 25 or 6 to 4 on his own (since long before I joined the band), on the studio version, Danny Seraphine actually doubles the intro guitar riff with flat flams on the toms. Having heard that song since childhood, even I had never noticed it until I was listening with a critical ear when I was learning the material 2 years ago.

Some of the guys in the band think I'm absolutely nuts. Every time I listen, I hear it as clear as day, but they completely dismiss me and actually make fun of me for believing this. It's become a big joke. The irony is, a brand new member is the one who most vehemently disagrees with me and he owns and operates a recording studio. He said he's listened on high end monitors, headphones, etc. He claims it's the percussive attack of the guitar, and the singer agrees. I can't NOT hear the toms there. Also, if what they're saying is true, where did that "percussive attack" frequency go once the kick/snare/hats groove enters?


Please tell me I'm not crazy. Or that I am. But tell me SOMETHING! What do you think? Toms in unison with opening riff, or my imagination?

Thanks,
Chris
I hear it. Never heard it before, but it sounds like you can even hear the slightly different pitch of the toms in addition to the texture of the thud.
 

Mongrel

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If it's there....

Why isn't it on the isolated drum tracks? I mean both drum tracks are there and neither one has any playing on the intro...

So, obviously if it's there then there is a third drum track...or perhaps a room mic that picked it up and was added to the guitar tracks.
 

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