China's as crashes

[dtk]

I always thought it was cool that Charlie used China's for crashes (did he ever say why...how he came to do that?)....Monday night I saw Kevin Tooly (NY drummer) playing with Richard Lloyd (Television) and he was also using china's for crashes (a zildjian and a Paiste). Was curious if anyone here was doing it, and what you are using.

 

[evolving_machine]

The first time I saw any drummer using a China type cymbal was way back after the Mahavishnu Birds of Fire album came out and Billy Cobham was using it on his left side. He was using it as both a ride and a crash. I bought a used Zildjian China with 6 rivet holes and one keeps coming out (strange haunted cymbal). I keep it on my right side since I do not play open handed like Cobham does. It adds a nice effect and use it on my practice kit at home. At band practice I only use three cymbals and a hi-hat pair. When crashing with the China, it is not as harsh as when crashing with a higher pitch crash cymbal. It is more subtle I think.

 

[Vicey]

In honor of Charlie, I tried a china as my only crash at my most recent band rehearsal. I warned the players that this was an experiment. It's an 18" Paiste 2002 black label with four rivet holes but only two rivets currently installed.

For what we're doing, it was honestly a bit much. I'd never use it on a gig as my only crash, but as a tonal contrast to other crash cymbals, it would be better. I have an undrilled Paiste Sig china, and I may try that one next.

What I loved about Charlie's Ufip was that it didn't scream "I'm a china cymbal" when he played it. It was a crash cymbal with a difference, a slightly throatier tone. The 2002 at least just leaves no ambiguity: it's a china and it ain't gonna let you forget it.

I also think the slightly throatier tonality is adequately covered by my Istanbul Agop Xist crash-with-holes-in-it. But I'm enjoying the experiment for now because my chinas have just sat in the closet since I got that crash.

 

[dje31]

Pretty much every cymbal in Bozzio's kitchen sink kits is a variation of some type of china / swish / pang / gong.

 

[Moonman]

I don't use one in the main crash position, but love my Paiste Traditional Medium Light Swish. It requires a lot of restraint b/c it's so much fun to hit.

 

[TPC]

There are certain China's that work as crashes, and some, as others have mentioned, are too China-y. Generally, it's the bell. A big, square Wuhan or 2002 bell will create that more harsh, China sound. (Weight is also a big factor.)

Paiste Trad thin Swish, Mehmet no-bell China, etc. are about midway crash-to-China to my ear.

I started a thread a couple years back about cymbals that are midway between crash and China that prompted a ton of info about this type of sound. I'll see if I can find it.

Cymbals that cover the middle ground between Crash and China?

I'm always on the lookout for a cymbal that covers that middle ground between a crash and a china type. I have a bunch, but I don't think I've found the perfect one yet. What do you use?

www.drumforum.org

 

[NobleCooleyNut]

I used to use a 16” Paiste Dimensions thin China as a crash - it sounded very similar to Charlie’s. Sadly it ended up being sold in one of my cymbal purges to finance other purchases . I have kept an eye out for another with no luck .

I have been using a Paiste PST-X or a Sabian O-zone in my set up lately . I far prefer the sound of these cymbals to Chinas as a regular part of my set up .

 

[JDA]

china's are crashes
china's are rides
timing is everything
try not to be rude



Lao Tsu Tang 1492
brother of Lao Tsu Pang of
"make a sound in the west but attack in the east"
fame

 

[JimmySticks]

I have two Kashian sizzle china's, an 18" with 6 rivets and a 20" with 8 rivets, and I mostly use them for crashes. I use them lightly though, just hard enough to get the rivets sizzling as I mostly play jazz. The 18" is a beautiful crash, so I don't really ride it, but the 20" is a decent ride for the right music.

 

[DanRH]

I used to use a 16” Paiste Dimensions thin China as a crash - it sounded very similar to Charlie’s. Sadly it ended up being sold in one of my cymbal purges to finance other purchases . I have kept an eye out for another with no luck .

I have been using a Paiste PST-X or a Sabian O-zone in my set up lately . I far prefer the sound of these cymbals to Chinas as a regular part of my set up .

Big DITTO here. I much prefer effects cymbals as alternative crashes. To my ear, they’re “softer” than chinas.

 

[Houndog]

My 18 & 20 K Custom Special Dry dark crashes are kinda china trashy …..

 

[Houndog]

 

[toddlittle827]

In honor of Charlie. I currently have my cymbals set up like he did in the Some Girls / Emotional Rescue era

Hats - China as a crash on left - Ride and Crash on my right

Charlie used 14" New Beats - 18" Ufip China - 20" 2002 Ride - 16" Arbiter-branded Formula 602 (most likely a Thin) at that time

I'm using 13" Paiste 505 Heavy Hats - 15" Paiste Stambul (B8) Marching China - 22" 505 Ride and 16" 505 Crash

I tried my 16" 505 China first but it was too China-y. My 17" Stambul China (NS12) from the 60s is pretty mellow but not enough sustain.
The thinner mid-70s era B8 Stambul Marching China was the closest of the three to get that Charlie sound - has much more of a crash quality than the other two.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

I have a couple of CHINA chinas that I don't use very often - I think having a band to interact with and practice level volume would make a "garbage can down a fire escape" accent more useful. As it is, I use the 20" SigTradMedLtSwish more than any of the rest combined. I also have a 16" old A that I'm pretty sure was one of those "BOP" cymbals with a tiny flattened 1/2" edge that has a similar quality.

Most are simply too stiff and heavy, and don't wake up unless you really wail on them.

 

[james_c_marks]

Paiste Trad Swish 22” with 6 small rivets.

always over the hats.

I’ve changed drums, I’ve changed cymbals, I’ve changed bands, I’ve changed Jobs…

that swish is always over my hats

 

[healthie1]

I've accepted I'll likely never use a larger china. My friend had either a 12" or 14" paiste china years ago that I really liked.