Chris Dave's influence...

E.L.

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
92
Reaction score
69
Chris Dave, in terms of sheer influence is on the same level as Tony Williams?
 

Drum Gear Review

DFO Veteran
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Messages
1,738
Reaction score
520
Location
Asheville, NC
It does seem like his thing has become the dominant voice in modern jazz, fusion and hip hop drumming (I'm just saying it seems like that - not an objective statement). I'm not educated enough to fully attribute that style to him, but as far as I can remember, he was the first or at least most visible player to marry the wobbly Dilla thing and blend it with the dry, super focused, and dense pattern stuff that Mike Clark and Billy Cobham were known for. I can't think of anyone else who was doing that as early and on as large a stage as Chris Dave.
 

Seb77

DFO Master
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
3,332
Reaction score
1,994
Location
Germany
I think drawing parellels in jazz history is difficult, since jazz is not going through a linear development anymore, arguably. There are many different streams going on these days, and to some he might be a big influence, to others, not so much. Back when people like Max, Art, Philly, Elvin, Tony came on the scene they changed the whole picture. These days, there are many "pictures" going on at the same time.
You can hear a big trend over the last , what, 25 years, toward imitating machine sounds and patterns; this has been going on since before Chris Dave. I would say many, but not all progressive drummers have jumped on this train.
 

E.L.

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
92
Reaction score
69
It does seem like his thing has become the dominant voice in modern jazz, fusion and hip hop drumming (I'm just saying it seems like that - not an objective statement). I'm not educated enough to fully attribute that style to him, but as far as I can remember, he was the first or at least most visible player to marry the wobbly Dilla thing and blend it with the dry, super focused, and dense pattern stuff that Mike Clark and Billy Cobham were known for. I can't think of anyone else who was doing that as early and on as large a stage as Chris Dave.
Karriem Riggins maybe?
 

dcrigger

DFO Star
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
6,086
Reaction score
3,797
Location
California
Chris Dave, in terms of sheer influence is on the same level as Tony Williams?
I love Chris Dave's playing - and totally recognize how profound and revolutionary it is and see how much it is influencing players, but... but to answer your question... at least so far....no.

"Sheer influence"?

Dictionary says -

noun

... the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behavior of someone or something, or the effect itself.

As stated above, I definitely think Chris has that capacity

But beyond having the capacity to effect others - doesn't the number of players the player can reach count as well?

And this is a problem - because we are talking about two very different eras... music was not divided up into so many little boxes... Thus Tony's position with one of the top jazz performers in the world probably afforded him far greater reach - meaning more people heard and experienced his playing than Chris Dave.... even early on.

Personally at the end of the day - I don't really care - as there is so many variables as to make all such comparisons barely even apples and oranges. And ultimately we are each influenced by whomever touches us personally - regardless of our community's consensus.
 

Phantomlimb777

Very well Known Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
1,207
Location
SoCal
Chris Dave is probably my biggest influence after Billy, and I guess by extension, Tony. He’s without a doubt one of the best of his time.
 

dyland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
229
Reaction score
371
Location
MA
It's really hard to quantify that and I'm not sure I'd ever want to. Two different players from two different eras where access to music, volume and breadth of music available, and attitudes of musicians are all vastly different.

I would say that they're both generationally influential players. I'm more influenced by Chris Dave, today, on 3/18/21. Most situations I find myself in these days have a back beat as a rule. In high school and the years after, when I played a lot more jazz than I do now, it was definitely Tony. And in the future, it may be Tony again.

I don't think that continuity should overlooked, though. Tony happened and that tsunami of influence eventually lead to a musical environment where Chris Dave could exist.
 

RIDDIM

DFO Master
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
4,859
Reaction score
1,624
Location
MD
I think Chris was a game-changer. He was the next guy to cause a huge shift in how a lot of guys played after Dennis blew up. He's a huge part of the lexicon among younger cats, at least in DC/Baltimore and what crosses my YT feed. To be a credible R&B player these days, we need to grasp what he brought to the table.

And on by the way, Chris did his homework on TW. I first saw him in the early 90's on Ray Angry's Howard Senior Recital video, doing a few straight-ahead tunes. Totally killed it. He had the whole room screaming.
 

codydee12

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2020
Messages
209
Reaction score
163
I think Chris was a game-changer. He was the next guy to cause a huge shift in how a lot of guys played after Dennis blew up. He's a huge part of the lexicon among younger cats, at least in DC/Baltimore and what crosses my YT feed. To be a credible R&B player these days, we need to grasp what he brought to the table.

And on by the way, Chris did his homework on TW. I first saw him in the early 90's on Ray Angry's Howard Senior Recital video, doing a few straight-ahead tunes. Totally killed it. He had the whole room screaming.
I second this
 

RIDDIM

DFO Master
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
4,859
Reaction score
1,624
Location
MD
Chris who?


Chiv

- Eric, also a major badass, is his cousin. They went to the same high school and had the same teacher, Craig Green, who taught a lot of others who have made names for themsleves.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JDA

toddbishop

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
295
Reaction score
460
I get my new music strictly from the radio, but it seems like everybody under ~30 is trying to sound like that. High, dry, noisy, hyperactive, self-disrupting groovewise-- with that artificial quintuplet-sounding hihat rhythm. Like hip hop went drum corps. But if Dave gets credit for creating that style, he's got to be the major influence for the last decade at least.

He's great-- I just don't want to hear that every day, in all settings. In the hands of ordinary players it's a very weak style, just in terms of playing an arrangement effectively, and holding a group of musicians together in a performance.

To me there's a break between players who were historically creating the playing language of the drums-- Baby Dodds up to about Jack Dejohnette-- and everyone who came after that-- eg Steve Gadd, Jeff Watts, Joey Baron, Bill Stewart, Brian Blade-- who are more influencing style using the same basic resources and language. So you can be a Tony Williams level of stylist and influencer, but maybe not a Tony level of innovator.
 

thenuge

Very well Known Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
905
Reaction score
205
Location
brooklyn
Music ebbs and flows. It doesn’t care who’s popular or not or gets into a wikipedia entry. It is. Chris is and does. It’s all good….

Only posting this vid for any that don’t know where he came from musically. If you can’t hear the influence then that’s the point. Do your own sht. Go forward. All his heroes did that.

 


Top