Circa 1920s Ludwig Shell Weights

EDL

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EDL, that drum looks beat to hell...I love it. So much Mojo! Of course, I would loved to have seen it in it's heyday. Nice find, even if it looks like it went to a steel wool party.
Yeah..it's had a cosmetically challenged life..but it has lots of mojo and sounds incredible!! It actually goes well with a 15" BB I have, same scroll pattern..

Here is a closeup pic of the 14" engraving..
I actually like the look a lot..

 

nonagon

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Scale arrived...20s 6.5x14 NOB 2 piece = 3,880g. Weight of unstripped drum. Includes all original hardware and newer heads (8 tube lugs, single flange hoops + claws, Emperor batter, Ambassador snare, 20 strand Puresounds). Anyone else have an old 6.5" that can add to this thread?
 

vintagemore2000

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Scale arrived...20s 6.5x14 NOB 2 piece = 3,880g. Weight of unstripped drum. Includes all original hardware and newer heads (8 tube lugs, single flange hoops + claws, Emperor batter, Ambassador snare, 20 strand Puresounds). Anyone else have an old 6.5" that can add to this thread?
Can i take it another direction for a second, I have 1998 NAMM brass edition 6 1/2x14" this drum is solid brass except for the tension rods it is all brass even the 10 hole triple flange ludwig rims, it weighs 12 pounds, and it is equipped with ludwig heads and 20 strand puresounds snare wires also, thanks
 

mtarrani

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Can i take it another direction for a second, I have 1998 NAMM brass edition 6 1/2x14" this drum is solid brass except for the tension rods it is all brass even the 10 hole triple flange ludwig rims, it weighs 12 pounds, and it is equipped with ludwig heads and 20 strand puresounds snare wires also, thanks
The spun shell on yours is different from a 2-piece, which I think is a thinner shell that is made heavier by the two piece construction. The hoops between the two may be a wash (or maybe not since the clips on the 20s ones add weight). The interesting thing about the two piece shells were how Ludwig stiffened the shell with the bead where the two shells intersected or were joined, and also how the bearing edges are soldered against the shell on the old ones. I did an "anatomy of shell" piece that you may find interesting ... it also links to this particular discussion.
 

nonagon

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Can i take it another direction for a second, I have 1998 NAMM brass edition 6 1/2x14" this drum is solid brass except for the tension rods it is all brass even the 10 hole triple flange ludwig rims, it weighs 12 pounds, and it is equipped with ludwig heads and 20 strand puresounds snare wires also, thanks
The spun shell on yours is different from a 2-piece, which I think is a thinner shell that is made heavier by the two piece construction. The hoops between the two may be a wash (or maybe not since the clips on the 20s ones add weight). The interesting thing about the two piece shells were how Ludwig stiffened the shell with the bead where the two shells intersected or were joined, and also how the bearing edges are soldered against the shell on the old ones. I did an "anatomy of shell" piece that you may find interesting ... it also links to this particular discussion.
Nice article, Mike! Interesting research and I can attest, the two piece shells, while being heavier, are relatively thin. I think the thin brass shell adds a nice musicality, and the key is in the clever reinforcements that allow it to work. These reinforcements are really what add weight and make it a "heavy brass shell".

Also, saw your pic...I'm a bimmer man myself (X3 and 135i)!
 

mtarrani

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Nice article, Mike! Interesting research and I can attest, the two piece shells, while being heavier, are relatively thin. I think the thin brass shell adds a nice musicality, and the key is in the clever reinforcements that allow it to work. These reinforcements are really what add weight and make it a "heavy brass shell".

Also, saw your pic...I'm a bimmer man myself (X3 and 135i)!
Thanks! Yeah, the sound one gets from those shells is unique. I need to look up the gauge of the wall thickness, but I remember it being pretty thin. In a way that validates Ron Dunnett's theories about shell thickness. It must have been a manufacturing nightmare to make those shells.


On the bimmer - I owned two (a 323ci and the Z4), and decided against another one when it came time to get one. Their quality IMHO has dropped dramatically, and the value is just not there. I came to this conclusion while driving my wife's Camry, which is a far superior car at a fraction of the price.
 

nonagon

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Nice article, Mike! Interesting research and I can attest, the two piece shells, while being heavier, are relatively thin. I think the thin brass shell adds a nice musicality, and the key is in the clever reinforcements that allow it to work. These reinforcements are really what add weight and make it a "heavy brass shell".

Also, saw your pic...I'm a bimmer man myself (X3 and 135i)!
Thanks! Yeah, the sound one gets from those shells is unique. I need to look up the gauge of the wall thickness, but I remember it being pretty thin. In a way that validates Ron Dunnett's theories about shell thickness. It must have been a manufacturing nightmare to make those shells.


On the bimmer - I owned two (a 323ci and the Z4), and decided against another one when it came time to get one. Their quality IMHO has dropped dramatically, and the value is just not there. I came to this conclusion while driving my wife's Camry, which is a far superior car at a fraction of the price.

Perhaps the way to look at it is the added weight is due to the extra length of thin brass sheet used in the shell. The overlap in the bead plus the extra length to create the flange chamber probably amount to an extra couple of inches of a flat brass sheet per piece of a two piece shell...an extra few inches of thin brass per drum can add half a pound.

(OT!)
Re: Bimmers...I agree about the quality being down, but the same thing goes with Toyota, tenfold, and I feel the driving enjoyment on a bimmer is still worth the premium. My 2007 X3 was built to a higher standard than my 2008 135i (albeit they were built at different manufacturing facilities). That said the 135i has a killing twin turbo and is a joy to drive. Oddly enough though the steering feel on the X3 is better than the 135i. My next car will be an M3 if I can swing the funds; hopefully I can fit a drum set into one.

Hope I didn't kill this thread.

Mike, did you say you are keeping a spreadsheet of shell weights of the 20s drums? Mind sharing what you have so far?
 

gkrk

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Did a spreadsheet of different 1920/30s Ludwig 2-piece shell (and maybe one piece) weights for various configurations (drum size, number of lugs, etc.) ever come into being? I'm a bit fixated on getting one of these drums and interested in learning more.

Jeremy
 

A.TomicMorganic

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14X6.5 1920 six lugs, 3538 g. 14X5 1928 BB 10 lug, 3538g. Both weighed 7.8 lbs on bathroom scale.
OK. just weighed on g scale. 6.5=3654. 5"=3726.
 
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