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Confirmation of last Chicago built Supraphonics

How bad were things in Chicago before the move?

  • Just keeping your head down...

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • Pure Kaos, Chaotic as all get out...

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • Depressing

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • Worse than all that...

    Votes: 2 33.3%

  • Total voters
    6

drumtimejohn

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Please show pictures of your drum, strainer, butt plate, wires, top, bottom, sides, interior, etc. What’s a silver P85? Pics please.
 

wflkurt

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I have seen more than a few 90's supraphonics with a hidden badge like this. I had one myself so either there were a lot of old shells drilled for B/O left or it's just something the factory did and did not care about. The Ludwig period from 1986-at least 1995 was a rough one for Ludwig. They had some real tough times as the parent company, Selmer did not pay much attention to them or sink much money into the Ludwig division. I think after the whole vintage thing kind of blew up in the 90's and nostalgia kicked in, Selmer realized they were sitting on a name with a lot of history. Guys like Ringo, Bonham and even AVH have sold a lot of drums for Ludwig and kept the name very much alive and well.
 

drumtimejohn

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Thanks @K.O. I tend to agree with your thinking! Per the usual Ludwig policy of substitution to get product out the door, this snare has substitution of bow-tie lugs, silver P-85 vs. silver/black P-85, and cast hoops. The timeline for these items should play into the discussion/ but ...all of these could have been replaced...

First production would be perfect for my collection. ....Since I already own either the oldest NOS Ludwig and Ludwig brass snare (or a generic built for Lyon & Healy to retail / before Ludwig used their name on all products) ...and an aluminium badge/ pat. pend./prototype feature 1937 brass WFL snare ...I'm OK with the alternate view, too. I may just keep rather than sell this drum!
I’m hearing you are asking others for pictures of a similar drum yet have not shared you own. Will you be sharing pictures of your drum and the “silver P85”?
 

drumtimejohn

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This is officially the first K4 Chicago stamped no serial number badge Ludwig ever made. It also happens to be the last because it was archived in a box and shipped to Monroe before being released. As a result, it’s likely the first drum to leave the Monroe plant. This is verified by the blistering which is the result of moving a Ludaloy shell from a fresh water region to salt. It has regular triple flange hoops on it now.



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drumtimejohn

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Commodore

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I’m hearing you are asking others for pictures of a similar drum yet have not shared you own. Will you be sharing pictures of your drum and the “silver P85”?
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Your drum appears well used. Thanks for posting pictures.

This drum actually appears to have been archived. The special padded case looks factory ...and still looks new! Someone must have thought a lot of this drum, to put it up so well. I would have played it to death in the eighties.


Mostly, I wanted to show pictures of the cool case. I was gonna dump the drum and reuse the case and canopus wires. Not so much, anymore...
 
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1988fxlr

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Just out of curiosity, are the badges still hidden on these with lower collared Ludwig heads?
 

K.O.

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Thanks @K.O. I did not know that Ludwig Chicago ran out of Imperial Lugs just before the move to Monroe. That is news!
I did not say that was a known fact. I said that is one theory for why the switch in lugs occurred. I proposed another theory (That the Ludwigs wanted "their" lug design on the anniversary drums). Neither theory is known to be the truth as far as I know.
 
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4MoreYearsOhNo

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This drum actually appears to have been archived. The special padded case looks factory ...and still looks new! Someone must have thought a lot of this drum, to put it up so well. I would have played it to death in the eighties.

Mostly, I wanted to show pictures of the cool case. I was gonna dump the drum and reuse the case. Not so much, anymore...

There you are with "archived" drums again.

OK, well you take the cake for dishonest advertising. You are asking $1300 for your mid-80's drum built from parts. How do we know it is built from parts - because you actually changed the throwoff and butt - ALL WHILE YOU HAD THE DRUM LISTED ON EBAY. A couple days ago it had an aftermarket P-88AC and P35 butt on it, but today you have put on the more period correct (but incorrectly attached) chrome P-85 and P-32 butt. You changed the parts out once you asked a question here and found the throw and butt were completely incorrect. But never mention this in your listing. Incredible.

Anyone who knows anything about vintage drums knows that your drums are all vintage parts assembled into what appear to you (and only you) to be "archived" and "unplayed" and "unique". Everyone else sees the replaced parts and the pitting.
 
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mlayton

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I had a 5x14 Supra from the Chicago large Keystone badge era. I cannot find a pic or info on it right now. It was sold to a forum member. It had the chrome blisters like the drum shown above. I did find some info on one of my favorite drums. It is a 5x14 bronze Supra. It has the bowties and the large Chicago badge with no serial number. Here is a link to it from my DFO gallery....Mike

 

drumtimejohn

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So dishonest. Couldn’t even lie your way into the period correct P85.

DFO here is how the OP is using your posts. Quoted from the pick-one-two(944) eBay listing:

“I am a hobby drummer but wanted a nice snare.
This was recommended as a rare drum that
would be perfect for me. However, because of my
music style, It has been unused in the closet for
years. It has the last style Chicago badge with NO serial number stamped and the bow-tie lugs were said
to be original. In 1984, Ludwig ran out of Imperial
lugs which normally appeared on Supraphonics.
I am trying to confirm that it may be among the
final assemblies In Chicago. The non-numbered
badge and non-standard parts used to build this
drum were all that was
"on hand" in Chicago at
the end. ( Per drumforum experts ...unused
numbered Chicago badges were sent to Monroe.
They were built into drums there. Only
unnumbered badges were held and used in the
final days of the Chicago factory.)
Per the DrumForum.org discussion on this drum
it appears the shell was a left over, as well. It
was drilled for blue/olive badge, as the vent hole
was drilled higher, (high enough as to obscure
the top of the large keystone badge when
mounted.)
Per usual Ludwig practice, substitutions we're
made if necessary to finish products. This
practice became critical at the end.

The cast hoops appear to be original. If so, they
were also likely used due to lack of regular
hoops. IMPERIAL LUGS are also usually used
on Supraphonics. This drum has bow-tie lugs
This snare has a P-85 silver rather than P-85
silver/black strainer usually seen on
Supraphonics. Although, the strainer (or anything
else) may easily have been updated
..the shell
being drilled for a B/O badge could only have
been built in Chicago.
This snare has at least 4 or even 5 major
differences from normal stock. This makes it very
likely that it is among the last of the drums
assembled in Chicago. If I find out anything
else, I will post here. You can also follow the
discussion on drumforum.org.
I do reserve the right to end the auction early!
Thanks for understanding.
The Batter seems to be the Original and now
includes a 2mm snare-side head.
Anyway
...this snare can be loud. It would be
perfect to cut through a loud mix. It really is a
nice snare!
Condition: The surface has some small spots
where the Aluminum is losing chrome. Overall, It
is nice for 40 years old snare …and no matter
what should appreciate in value.
Free domestic shipping with buy-it-now. Thanks.”
 

drumtimejohn

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View attachment 566864 View attachment 566865 View attachment 566866 View attachment 566867 View attachment 566868

This drum actually appears to have been archived. The special padded case looks factory ...and still looks new! Someone must have thought a lot of this drum, to put it up so well. I would have played it to death in the eighties.

Mostly, I wanted to show pictures of the cool case. I was gonna dump the drum and reuse the case. Not so much, anymore...
Let’s preserve this post too.
 

wflkurt

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I hate to burst anyone's bubble on all this but I just don't see a supra that was outfitted with classic lugs as anything all that special. Ludwig ran out of imperial lugs and they used a lug that was meant to go on an acrolite. This look actually reminds me of some of the cheaper steel rocker snares Ludwig made later on. I bet that it does sound great though. I had a 5x14 that was pieced together with various parts as I got the shell and lugs for nothing. I added a chrome faced P-85 as well as the hoops and it sounded really good.

Now I know Ludwig had a few snares that were chrome plated over the 75th anniversary engraving, leaving the trace of the engraving in the chrome. Those were also fitted with classic lugs and that's something that I find to be quite rare and valuable. I would personally probably be bummed to find a supra with classic lugs as I much prefer them how they were intended. That's just me though.

1655838990938.png
 

bpaluzzi

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I hate to burst anyone's bubble on all this but I just don't see a supra that was outfitted with classic lugs as anything all that special. Ludwig ran out of imperial lugs and they used a lug that was meant to go on an acrolite. This look actually reminds me of some of the cheaper steel rocker snares Ludwig made later on. I bet that it does sound great though. I had a 5x14 that was pieced together with various parts as I got the shell and lugs for nothing. I added a chrome faced P-85 as well as the hoops and it sounded really good.

Now I know Ludwig had a few snares that were chrome plated over the 75th anniversary engraving, leaving the trace of the engraving in the chrome. Those were also fitted with classic lugs and that's something that I find to be quite rare and valuable. I would personally probably be bummed to find a supra with classic lugs as I much prefer them how they were intended. That's just me though.

View attachment 566919
Yup. I've got one with factory bowties as well. Chicago keystone badge w/ serial number in a hole drilled for B&O badge.

It's neither a collectible nor is it any more valuable than a standard drum from that time period. Mainly because it's trivial to fake it.
 

KCDrumDad

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View attachment 566668
Thanks for your input.

This Supraphonic doesn’t have a serial number but is a Chicago keystone badge. I was told it was among the last assembled in Chicago. I need the experts to weigh in …if this is possibly because the number stamping equipment had already been sent to Monroe.

The drum further has bow-tie lugs and cast hoops. Everything else is normal 80’s Supra and nothing appears altered. Could this confirm or add plausibility to being built up from leftover parts? The lugs do appear original.

I’m selling this (at a reasonable price as I was directed to it at a resonable price) but don’t wish to spread falsehood in the community. Let me know if you’ve heard of something similar… Thanks again!
No. I have not heard anything to support that this drum was among the last assembled in Chicago. It seems like it may have been assembled in Charlotte.
 

rpludwig

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This is officially the first K4 Chicago stamped no serial number badge Ludwig ever made. It also happens to be the last because it was archived in a box and shipped to Monroe before being released. As a result, it’s likely the first drum to leave the Monroe plant. This is verified by the blistering which is the result of moving a Ludaloy shell from a fresh water region to salt. It has regular triple flange hoops on it now.

What in the world leads you to believe that the blistering is caused by moving a drum from a fresh to salt water environment????

Further, since when has Monroe been moved from SW NC to the coast?????? Your "theory" has zero basis in fact!
 
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wflkurt

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What in the world leads you to believe that the blistering is caused by moving a drum from a fresh to salt water environment????

Further, since when has Monroe been moved from SW NC to the coast?????? Your "theory" has zero basis in fact!


Honestly I thought this was a joke? That's how I originally read it anyway.
 


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